[Tubby Isaacs]

It seems to me that the 'patriots' who talk about saving British culture hate the things about Britain that outsiders revere - Parliamentary democracy, the NHS, police, BBC, RNLI, National Trust.

There's literally nothing that can't be attacked as deviating from true British (ie their) values. The Church of England has long became a target, with rightwing politicians lecturing bishops on the nature of religion. I think the left, centre (and even moderate right) could play this card much more often than they do. Most people don't want Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch intruding on stuff.

[Youngian]

I think the left, centre (and even moderate right) could play this card much more often than they do. Most people don't want Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch intruding on stuff.

Good point, we even have Tommeh Ten Names now trying out religion. I doubt young women are appreciating Farage and Danny Kruger lecturing them about having more babies either.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I remember at the time of Back to Basics, lots on the right gave the impression it was a great idea. Ted Heath was a rare exception, immediately saying that people didn't like this stuff when it came for political parties. Perhaps, as a former Leader and Chief Whip, he had more of an idea about what Tory MPs got up to than others.

[Boiler]

I think the left, centre (and even moderate right) could play this card much more often than they do. Most people don't want Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch intruding on stuff.

Good point, we even have Tommeh Ten Names now trying out religion. I doubt young women are appreciating Farage and Danny Kruger lecturing them about having more babies either.

Nah, that's Miriam Cates's job.

[Boiler]

That traditional ploughman's that was 'codified' post WW2, etc etc etc.

Indeed. One of the pubs near where I used to live claimed to have invented it but I think it actually was a Milk Marketing Board idea? Wiki says the Cheese Bureau.

[Youngian]

I remember at the time of Back to Basics, lots on the right gave the impression it was a great idea. Ted Heath was a rare exception, immediately saying that people didn't like this stuff when it came for political parties. Perhaps, as a former Leader and Chief Whip, he had more of an idea about what Tory MPs got up to than others.

Heath's nemesis Enoch Powell wasn't much into cultural conservatism (beyond race issues) either. As the health minister who introduced the Pill on the NHS, Powell can lay claim to architect of the Permissive society. A fun fact to inform right headbangers.
Farage mines libertarianism and social conservatism but that's because he's just full of shit.

[RedSparrows]

One of my favourite posters on the Guardian BTL posted this.




Ed West is London-focussed, and doubtless not particularly hard up. How much is there in London that he could go and support? As Stephen Bush says, go to Wigmore Hall.

I remember Darcus Howe talking to some white British people in a pub, and playfully observing that while their baguettes looked nice, what was wrong with the traditional English ploughman's lunch? If you think this sort of stuff matters, which I don't really, it's not immigrants that forced the change to baguettes.

That traditional ploughman's that was 'codified' post WW2, etc etc etc.

We've covered this with folk songs.
First sheet music doesn't fix the date of composition.
First appearance on pub menu doesn't imply it wasn't a popular snack.

I completely agree with you. I'm observing the asinine side of cultural identity, as is so often the case: something with long history and a set of associations, reframed and packaged as part of some recent attempt to do X or Y. As so often, it's not about the thing itself - in this case a standard northern European lunch, really - but about all the extra bits and pieces of symbolism you can hang off it.

[davidjay]

It seems to me that the 'patriots' who talk about saving British culture hate the things about Britain that outsiders revere - Parliamentary democracy, the NHS, police, BBC, RNLI, National Trust.

It's remabkable to reflect how that list has grown as the haters have grown more and more extreme.
Would Thatcher, or even Tebbit have denounced any of that list (except perhaps the NHS)?

Tebbit, probably the lot.

[Oboogie]

It seems to me that the 'patriots' who talk about saving British culture hate the things about Britain that outsiders revere - Parliamentary democracy, the NHS, police, BBC, RNLI, National Trust.

It's remabkable to reflect how that list has grown as the haters have grown more and more extreme.
Would Thatcher, or even Tebbit have denounced any of that list (except perhaps the NHS)?

Tebbit, probably the lot.

In fact Tebbit was a very pro-NHS especially after it saved him and his wife after the Brighton bomb.

[Bones McCoy]

It seems to me that the 'patriots' who talk about saving British culture hate the things about Britain that outsiders revere - Parliamentary democracy, the NHS, police, BBC, RNLI, National Trust.

It's remabkable to reflect how that list has grown as the haters have grown more and more extreme.
Would Thatcher, or even Tebbit have denounced any of that list (except perhaps the NHS)?

Tebbit, probably the lot.

Very keen on:
* Police - esp when truncheoning hippies and militants
* BBC - esp when re-ordering events at Orgreave.
* RNLI - wonderful example of charity and coastal town self-reliance.
* National Trust - back in the day when people knew their place, no darkies and pooftahs etc etc.

[Youngian]

Ch4's first boss Jeremy Isaacs recalled how Tebbit badgered him for showing programmes featuring 'omosexuals (they'd been two); 'when we said minority programming we meant stuff like golf.'

[Tubby Isaacs]

Heath's nemesis Enoch Powell wasn't much into cultural conservatism (beyond race issues) either. As the health minister who introduced the Pill on the NHS, Powell can lay claim to architect of the Permissive society. A fun fact to inform right headbangers.
Farage mines libertarianism and social conservatism but that's because he's just full of shit.

Thatcher was among the first to combine free markets and "Victorian values", wasn't she? Maybe Keith Joseph, but I don't know if the "genetic stock" bollocks counts- was his point that the "wrong" people were having kids, or that they were having too much easy sex?

I guess for other people on the right, the free market stuff was futuristic in the same sort of way as Roy Jenkins liberalism was.

[Andy McDandy]

Their view of morality was the same as everything else: free to those who were on the inside, very expensive for everyone else.

[Bones McCoy]

Their view of morality was the same as everything else: free to those who were on the inside, very expensive for everyone else.

The Cecil Parkinson standard.