[Tubby Isaacs]

I think Ball's right that very little of the media are interested in the speech. But some people are. Sunder Katwala responds-

https://www.britishfuture.org/pms-welco ... al-action/

Nice of Adam Bienkov to give a summary that makes (as it's intended to) Starmer sound like Goodwin.

I don't really like references to "British values"- there are good and bad values. Better still avoid values altogether, and talk about policies. Starmer doesn't help himself with singling out "the left", but I think it's fair to say that lots of mainstream politics was far too relaxed about long term residents having very poor English language skills. That's improved but there is a way to go on integration, and it deserves to be taken seriously as an issue.

[Tubby Isaacs]

https://bsky.app/profile/katebevan.com/ ... 42bfy4ic2c

Someone BTL makes a good point that Mandelson's passing sensitive information is being conflated with Starmer appointing Mandelson.

Yeah, though I think this (in terms of stuff not known to Starmer)) a bigger scandal than some of things she mentions.

It's also a rather smaller scandal than the Conservative Party choosing Boris Johnson as leader and supporting him for 3 years.

[Andy McDandy]

If the last 30 years have shown us anything, it's that 'paedos' is the ultimate trump card (pun intended). It hits on an emotive level far harder than any other sort of wrongdoing, be it sexual, financial, criminal, moral, aesthetic, whatever. There are issues where discussion simply isn't possible*, because to do so opens you to accusations of noncery. It's the crime that can never be removed from one's rap sheet. Even murderers can be forgiven, or can attract fandoms.

Thus, any talk of due process, or procedures being followed, or matters being sub judice, or the presumption of innocence mean nothing. Fucker diddled kids, kill the bastard. Or knew someone who diddled kids. Or didn't speak out loudly enough about the diddler of kids.

So any attempt to defend Mandy's appointment, or indeed his continued status as living, is doomed to failure. Or descends into really unpleasant whataboutery.

*Take for example the age of consent. 16 is an arbitrary point. It has been different in the past, and is higher/lower in many places around the world. Any discussion of why it's set where it is (let alone changing it) will attract accusations of being a paid up member of the Saville Squad.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Wes Streeting to offer resident doctors bigger pay rise to end dispute
Health secretary to increase pay offer and guarantee working conditions for resident doctors only

Sounds like quite a bit higher. If so, I can't really criticize the action, can I? I certainly didn't see this coming. I don't know if Reeves agreed to more money.

So, let me guess? This isn't the government settling a strike, it's "Wes on maneuvers", right?

[mattomac]

Apparently according to Beth Rigby on Sky its the biggest political scandal this century.

Only it isn't, it perhaps is if you take in all those names involved as well all the emails and the obviously readacted missing names then yes it includes the President of the US, Russia, the populist right in Europe and literally doesn't seem to have left anyone untouched in politics especially on the right.

However I don't think Beth was thinking that much out, shes focusing on a bit of shite appointment made on evidence known at the time which is Mandleson has a few scandals but not to any level that we now currently know of.

Meanwhile you had a government directive that the government did not follow itself only 5 years ago and a scheme to help the hospitality industry that killed people along with lapse approaches that also killed people.

But hey all that as opposed to a bit of a shit appointment.

[The Weeping Angel]

[Tubby Isaacs]

Is Zack the Green interested in this at all? I get that they have this in the bank as an issue, but even so. I note he gets an incredibly easy time about this.

This is one reason I'm less pessimistic about Reform than some people. Isn't their stance going to look ridiculous by 2029? I think that's what the Government are banking on.

[Boiler]

Apparently according to Beth Rigby on Sky its the biggest political scandal this century.

Beff Rigby, along with the rest of the media class, can fuck right off.

[Oboogie]

https://bsky.app/profile/katebevan.com/ ... 42bfy4ic2c

Quoting Kate's post below.

This feels like massive hyperbole. Was it deeply stupid and a huge failure of judgment to appoint Mandelson to, well, anything? Yes, thrice yes. Was it up there with the expenses scandal, or partygate, or Windrush, Owen Paterson, or Tulip Siddique's still murky source of money? I don't think so.

Someone BTL makes a good point that Mandelson's passing sensitive information is being conflated with Starmer appointing Mandelson.

Yes, there are a lot of political opportunists employing an awful lot of hindsight because they smell an opportunity to begin the government down.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Keir Starmer should face a no confidence vote, Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey has said in response to the controversy surrounding Peter Mandelson.

The Liberal Democrats leader said:

The British people can’t afford for this Labour soap opera to drag on for months or even years, like the Conservative Party did with Boris Johnson. We need a government totally focused on ending the cost-of-living crisis, fixing the NHS and care, and getting our economy growing again.
Keir Starmer should say ‘put up or shut up’. Let’s have a confidence vote now to see whether Labour MPs have any confidence in the prime minister, so the government can get past this one way or the other and start focusing on the change our country needs.

So, per Ed Davey.

1) We need to see the vetting documents.
2) We should have a confidence vote now (before anyone's seen the vetting documents)

I increasingly can't abide this shallow opportunistic bollocks that Davey comes out with. It's one thing for the Greens and Reform to act like this is the worst government and PM ever, quite another for the supposed sober third party to do it.

[The Weeping Angel]

Is Zack the Green interested in this at all? I get that they have this in the bank as an issue, but even so. I note he gets an incredibly easy time about this.

This is one reason I'm less pessimistic about Reform than some people. Isn't their stance going to look ridiculous by 2029? I think that's what the Government are banking on.

Well the right-wing media don't care and the left-wing media see him as a means to get rid of Starmer.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Latest example of the Government shouldn't do anything ever here, re the "British FBI" (an expression which should be banned).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ritish-fbi

Usual baffling logic, but it goes straight in on the letters page because it's critical of the Government.

The new NPS may have too wide a remit to be manageable. Many Met police commissioners end their time badly because of the extent of their responsibilities – public order, counter-terrorism, mid-range organised crime, street crime, drunks, knives, road traffic, domestic disturbances, dealing with the mentally unwell, and the vetting and personnel problems of police and civilian staff.

That sounds like an argument in favour of the Government's position of creating a national force that focusses on a fairly cohesive group of very serious crimes.

Who would want to lead the NPS?

Not me, but the previous statement would suggest that the job would be attractive to precisely the sort of person he just described, fed up with spending their time on drunks and road traffic.

[Boiler]

Davey can say what he likes because he'll never get near power (hopefully).

But he can fuck off with this no confidence shit.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well the right-wing media don't care and the left-wing media see him as a means to get rid of Starmer.

Yep. See also the way that when this is acknowledged at all, it's put down to "Ed Miliband who Starmer wants to sack".

I'm old enough to remember this.

Labour cuts £28bn green investment pledge by half
This article is more than 1 year old
Keir Starmer announces party will now spend less than £15bn on green projects a year if it wins election

And yet all this green investment is happening despite this massive "betrayal".

[Tubby Isaacs]

Davey can say what he likes because he'll never get near power (hopefully).

But he can fuck off with this no confidence shit.

It's Lib Dem by-election politics, totally unscrupulous. It's like how he's elevated nimbyism more than any previous Liberal leader. I'm amazed that he gets such an easy time from lots of the liberal left.

If Ed thinks that this stuff is a distraction from the NHS etc, he can do his bit by not calling for votes of confidence. Here's a speech for him

"Mr Speaker, nothing will change the fact that Peter Mandelson was a terrible appointment, and it gives me no pleasure in having said that at the time. We need to know what the Prime Minister knew and when. We can't do this till the documents are released. So here's a question about the NHS in the meantime...."

[Oboogie]

*Take for example the age of consent. 16 is an arbitrary point. It has been different in the past, and is higher/lower in many places around the world. Any discussion of why it's set where it is (let alone changing it) will attract accusations of being a paid up member of the Saville Squad.

There's a fundamental problem with all arbitrary age limits
1.nobody is wiser, more mature or more sensible 5 minutes after midnight on their 16th birthday than they were an hour earlier.
2. teenagers don't mature at the same pace, some "children" make wiser decisions than some "adults".
3. the age of consent should take into account the circumstances including the age of the offender. A 15 year old boy who has sex with his 15 year old girlfriend (or boyfriend) is guilty of statutory rape. Is his level of offence the same as a 35 year old? A 45 year old? I believe it's the Netherlands which has a policy of not prosecuting if the "offender" is within a few years of the "victim" - seems sensible to me.
But yeah, I guess that makes me a Jimmy Savile apologist.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Starmer sticking by McSweeney. Not sure about this.

What did Denis Skinner say about the Tories sacking their servants? That's what everyone will say about Starmer. On the other hand, he might get more of the support he's entitled to expect from his own side if he does it.