[Boiler]

Well, I've got BBC Parliament on the lapdog now. Pity this machine is so damned quiet...

[kreuzberger]

Well, I've got BBC Parliament on the lapdog now. Pity this machine is so damned quiet...

You're right to express regret; you don't want to get a lapdog and bark yourself.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Swinney claims Starmer not tackling cost of living crisis because he's distracted by Mandelson scandal

Yeah, Starmer. Just lower the international price of gas and install a zillion more renewables now. You could do it if you weren't thinking about Mandelson (which was, until Wednesday afternoon, no longer a political issue).

Absolutely pathetic stuff from Swinney.

[Oboogie]

Well, I've got BBC Parliament on the lapdog now. Pity this machine is so damned quiet...

One of the most useful birthday presents I was ever given was my Xboom wifi speaker to solve this very problem (NB I've had mine a few years and there are probably better/cheaper versions now available)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326773248415 ... 5cQAvD_BwE

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah I had to search a while to see what he was actually saying as the headline seemed a shocking admission of guilt.

When in fact it’s what they’ve been saying for days now.

Yeah, earlier it said "Starmer might have been told, said Number 10". That looked uncannily like an admission that he did know. But meant that it was possible for him to have been told. Someone BTL pressed Andrew Sparrow on this headline, and he (who wouldn't have written it, and who I think is OK) couldn't see the issue. But it didn't exactly dispel the impression I have that the paper is trying to force him out.

[Boiler]

Well, I've got BBC Parliament on the lapdog now. Pity this machine is so damned quiet...

You're right to express regret; you don't want to get a lapdog and bark yourself.

woof

[Boiler]

Six Bob Knob told to leave the chamber.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 30862af13e

[Tubby Isaacs]

I see John's immaturing with age again.

Mandelson given ambassador's job as reward for helping get Starmer elected MP, John McDonnell claims

John McDonnell (Lab) said he welcomed Starmer’s apology. He went on to claim that, when Keir Starmer wanted to become Labour leader, he became dependent on Morgan McSweeney and Peter Mandelson to organise and fund his election. He went on:

When he became prime minister, the reward for McSweeney was control of No 10 and, for Mandelson, the highest diplomatic office.
And the message, that unspoken message to civil servants, was what Mandelson wants. Mandelson gets.
He said Starmer should clear this “toxic culture” out from Labour. And he called for an inquiry into Labour Together, the thinktank that was founded by McSweeney and subsequently criticised for smearing journalists writing critically about it.

This is absolutely pathetic stuff. Using a political crisis (which seems unwarranted, from what we know so far) to settle silly scores. A government inquiry into Labour Together, FFS. McSweeney has resigned, Mandelson was sacked.

Starmer apologized before about appointing Mandelson, as he well knows.

"The unspoken message to civil servants"? Roughly translated, "I've got nothing". No engagement at all with what seems to be the core of this "crisis"- that it was established policy not to inform the PM of the "failed" vetting. Nobody, despite the plethora of former civil servants and former foreign secretaries, has come out to contradict that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Fuck off, John McDonnell.

Mandelson given ambassador's job as reward for helping get Starmer elected MP, John McDonnell claims
John McDonnell (Lab) said he welcomed Starmer’s apology. He went on to claim that, when Keir Starmer wanted to become Labour leader, he became dependent on Morgan McSweeney and Peter Mandelson to organise and fund his election. He went on:

When he became prime minister, the reward for McSweeney was control of No 10 and, for Mandelson, the highest diplomatic office.
And the message, that unspoken message to civil servants, was what Mandelson wants. Mandelson gets.
He said Starmer should clear this “toxic culture” out from Labour. And he called for an inquiry into Labour Together, the thinktank that was founded by McSweeney and subsequently criticised for smearing journalists writing critically about it.

[mattomac]

The man who has had 3 parties.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Davey claims Starmer's statement today shows he has failed to offer change from Johnson era

Yeah, Ed, just the same.

The prime minister knew that appointing Mandelson was an enormous risk, he decided it was a risk worth taking – a catastrophic error of judgment, and now that it’s blown up in his face, the only decent thing to do is to take responsibility.
Back in 2022, the prime minister rightly accused Boris Johnson of expecting others to take the blame while he clung on. That was not acceptable then, and it’s not acceptable now …
After years of chaos under the Conservatives, we needed a government focused on the interests of the people – the cost of living crisis, the health and care crisis, our national security. We needed a government of honesty, integrity and accountability. So will the prime minister finally accept that the only way he can help to deliver that is to resign?

What's he saying Starmer should resign for exactly? Appointing Mandelson? Did he call for that before, or is he just jumping on this bandwagon now?

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is disappointing.

Ellie Chowns (Green) said Starmer should resign.

What’s really staggering and unforgivable is that [Starmer] appointed Peter Mandelson … knowing about his friendship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein. What’s unforgivable is that the prime minister was more concerned with pandering to Donald Trump than with standing with the victims and survivors …
Will he take personal responsibility for his staggering and unforgivable errors of judgment and resign?

"Pandering to Donald Trump", why would you do that, it's a mystery?

Did she call for this before?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Am I missing something here? These are reasons you might not want to appoint him, but he resigned from both of these years at least 6 years before he was appointed to the embassy. How do they make him a security risk?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

McDonnel always was and still is a festering cunt.

[Youngian]

This is disappointing.

Ellie Chowns (Green) said Starmer should resign.

What’s really staggering and unforgivable is that [Starmer] appointed Peter Mandelson … knowing about his friendship with the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein. What’s unforgivable is that the prime minister was more concerned with pandering to Donald Trump than with standing with the victims and survivors …
Will he take personal responsibility for his staggering and unforgivable errors of judgment and resign?

"Pandering to Donald Trump", why would you do that, it's a mystery?

Did she call for this before?

I thought courting leaders instead of conflict was the Greens' cornerstone in foreign policy.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Guess who else has limboed in?

Sultana said:

We all know that the prime minister appointed Mandelson because he owes his job to him. He appointed him, he defended him and now he claims to know nothing. He is gaslighting the nation. So let’s call this out for what it is. The prime minister is a barefaced liar.

We all know this, do we? I must have dreamed the Labour Leadership Election and the General Election. At which Sultana ran, not particularly reluctantly, given that Mandelson was really in charge.

She was booted out by Hoyle.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I thought courting leaders instead of conflict was the Greens' cornerstone in foreign policy.

I've just sent her a letter, wish I'd put this in it. Whoever was ambassador was going to be doing a fair bit of pandering, even if that didn't need to be Mandelson.

I did though put it to her that the beneficiary of a Labour PM being pushed out isn't likely to be the left. A new PM will get exactly the same treatment and the clamour for a general election will be hard to resist. Matt said rightly that you probably have 18 months for a general election under a new leader. That's not going to be enough time for improvements in services, EU relations etc to take hold.

I'm also not keen on the prospect of a leadership election, in which lightweight populists get to make whoever does take over look like a shitty sell out, and probably spook markets with silly stuff. Or even worse, they could win.

[Youngian]

Mandelson a potential Burgess or Philby? No. A greedy venal shit is what makes him a security risk. A foxy old player like Mandy could see the traps for Keir's premiership in accepting the ambassador gig. But he couldn't resist the prestige, power and perks the role would bring. Even though he's pushing 70 not an ambitious young Turk. Prick.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yep. He resigned from the Russian connection in 2017. And weren't the UK Government trying to build relationships with China in 2018?

And, if I'm not mistaken, these vetting documents weren't shown to the Prime Minister. What's Badenoch on about, saying he was warned?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Andrew Sparrow gives a reasonably fair account of where we are, as he usually does. He notes that if indeed Starmer is a liar, he's very good at it, because nobody could demonstrate him lying. Badenoch seems to have stopped claiming that he's a liar.

The conclusion is this

this controversy has only added to the long list of reasons Labour MPs have for wanting him out before the next election and nothing he said this afternoon changes that.

The Mandelson appointment, or this vetting argument? The first was apologized for months ago, and you either accept that or you don't. If they're talking about the vetting argument, then the point they should take from that is that the media will pull the same thing on whoever they want to replace Starmer with.

Easy to imagine if this was Bozo. "Imaginative appointment outside the Civil Service bubble, didn't work, but are we saying we don't want Government to take risks? And the useless mess of the vetting doesn't exactly make the civil service look good, eh?" This vetting controversy would have barely registered.