[Malcolm Armsteen]

TAPS



Thick As Pig Shit...

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Reform element of the Tories never had a problem with Gullis and co. It was the Cameron types they didn’t like. I wonder if there’s much downside to bringing in the worst Tories.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Having said that, I think Reform will struggle to get past a level in a General Election where tactical voters won’t be able to block them.

[Abernathy]

That “let the other lot have a go” mentality is idiocy epitomised.

In some instances, in fact very much in this instance, “giving the other lot ago” is the very last thing you should do.

This sort of fuckwittedness is the sort of thing that drives me to despair.

[RedSparrows]

In the post-match euphoria of Thursday night I was talking to a friend's son, presumably in his mid-twenties. He was pro-Reform, I asked him how he thought a public school millionaire stockbroker gave a toss about him, he agreed but "They're different and I'm skint." My older and now sadly late friend's saying about "Let the other lot have a go" is being played out with both major parties at once.

I'd have more sympathy for 'time for a change' if the politics wasn't Thatcher + racism and the personnel weren't half the fucking last Tory government.

This is vibes. That is all it is.

[mattomac]

Yup, would make sense from a Green perspective or Plaid.

[kreuzberger]

I would place the blame for a lot of this vibes nonsense at the door of education. There is little there to ram home the understanding that running countries is actually quite a tough task, and simple solutions simply don't exist.

This political illiteracy is the only thing that allows these snake-oil salesmen to get into the hearts and minds of people who should know better, even if it is not their fault that they do not.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The demographic of Reform skews older. Not much you can do about education there.

[kreuzberger]

Indeed, that is not a simple solution to a seemingly intractable problem. It is a long term one, albeit with 800,000 educated potential voters replacing the +/-500,000 likely ones who die each year.

No democracy on earth can withstand this level of ignorance.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I would place the blame for a lot of this vibes nonsense at the door of education. There is little there to ram home the understanding that running countries is actually quite a tough task, and simple solutions simply don't exist.

This political illiteracy is the only thing that allows these snake-oil salesmen to get into the hearts and minds of people who should know better, even if it is not their fault that they do not.

We used to do some of that until Keith Joseph killed it off in the National Curriculum.

[Boiler]

Keith Joseph.

Now there was a nasty individual, with some very dubious views as I recall.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The US has Civics. Doesn’t seem to have done its politics much good.

[Yug]

But American education is now so poor that many kids won't be able to understand what they're being taught. Don't forget that 18 year-olds are now graduating from high schools with the reading and comprehension skills of the average British 12 year-old. And also don't forget all the home-schooled kids being taught by clueless parents.

Edit to add

Teacher quality has dropped dramatically since Reagan's time, with salaries stuck at late 80s levels schools can't attract decent teachers.

Education in the US is beyond a joke.

[Boiler]

Don't forget that 18 year-olds are now graduating from high schools with the reading and comprehension skills of the average British 12 year-old.

Seriously...?

And also don't forget all the home-schooled kids being taught by clueless parents.

After many years and getting dicked about by an idiot "principal" at an academy, my nephew left teaching and now works in local government... where he oversees home-schooling parents.

Someone I used to work with home-schooled his kids; goodness knows why.

"Schools" in the US seem to be no more than live target ranges for incels and ammosexuals anyway.

[Andy McDandy]

I've told this before, but it bears repeating. When I worked for Warwickshire Council, we had an induction programme for all new starters. Part of it was explaining what councils actually do at various levels.

My understanding of Joseph is that his ostensible reason for removing Civics was the concern of teachers indoctrinating pupils. Which is a fair point, if political ideology was all he stripped out.

Old story 2. Early 90s, on holiday in Belgium. You could buy a booklet that explained in plain language what the Maastricht treaty would mean for you. No commentary, just the facts. My dad said that you would never get that in Britain, because it would be labelled as propaganda, there'd be loads of "ah, but what aren't they telling you?", demands for a version from the Eurosceptic side, and more general fuckery from a system that confuses ignorance with well honed cynicism, and teenage arrogance with wisdom.

[Tubby Isaacs]

But American education is now so poor that many kids won't be able to understand what they're being taught. Don't forget that 18 year-olds are now graduating from high schools with the reading and comprehension skills of the average British 12 year-old. And also don't forget all the home-schooled kids being taught by clueless parents.

Edit to add

Teacher quality has dropped dramatically since Reagan's time, with salaries stuck at late 80s levels schools can't attract decent teachers.

Education in the US is beyond a joke.

US education varies hugely. The states come out on top who you'd expect to (Massachusetts, New Jersey, Connecticut etc) and the states come out low down who you'd expect to (the poor South). School salaries are higher in the ones that do well, and low in the ones who don't (though cost of living would erode higher salaries in eg New York).

You get more idiot governors in the South, who fuck teachers about, but lots of that is performative. In terms of quality of teaching, it's like the UK in that data and testing is in vogue. Some of that has improved the system, some of it probably hasn't.

[Youngian]

Fun fact, areas settled by Puritans ( New England) are the least religious in the US. They valued education and industriousness and their off spring were keener on founding universities and factories than churches.