[Malcolm Armsteen]

And will every other region have the same help?

Guess.
If I was Welsh or Cornish I'd be fucking angry now. Well, even angrier than I am...

Identity Politics - the politics of division.

[Boiler]

Just heard Claire Fox on Any Questions, which of course is discussing Burnham.

I didn't really notice until now what a horrible voice she has.

[Oboogie]

Johnson said that if he walked on water, the reaction of some media would be to report that he couldn't swim.

I first heard a version of that joke in relation to Nelson Mandela about 35 years ago, I'd forgotten that it originated with Johnson.

I think some people have astonishingly high expectations of Burnham and, as it becomes apparent that he's not the Messiah, inevitably the scales will fall from their eyes.

[Oboogie]

The idea is that the symbolism of the move makes other people (especially in Whitehall) understand that the new PM is serious about devolution. I find it pretty unimpressive that senior civil servants might need this to happen but apparently so.

But is it devolution or is it merely decentralisation? Devolution requires giving power away, if all that's happening is just civil servants dishing out central government policy, the location of their office makes no difference whatsoever.

There's already devolution happening but it's been said that it's moving slowly because. the civil service don't want it to happen, or that Starmer didn't lead them strongly enough. As I say, I find this deeply disappointing if it's true, but lots of people think it's true, and I think you need to see the Manchester office in these terms.

I take your point that there's a difference between devolving power and moving some people out of London, but the two seem to go together in this case, and in terms of Burnham's thinking.

Obviously previous governments have devolved power but which powers has Burnham said he's going to devolve?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Just heard Claire Fox on Any Questions, which of course is discussing Burnham.

I didn't really notice until now what a horrible voice she has.

She's not as nice as she sounds.

[Oboogie]

And will every other region have the same help?

Guess.
If I was Welsh or Cornish I'd be fucking angry now. Well, even angrier than I am...

Identity Politics - the politics of division.

Why single out Wales and Cornwall? He's the PM of the UK and should be governing for the entire nation.

There was a fascinating programme on Radio 4 yesterday discussing the history of the North South divide and pointing out the flaws with the simplistic drawing of a line across the map.

Here's the link. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002z66n

[Tubby Isaacs]

Most people understand "the North" as political shorthand. It's part of a strategy focussed on fighting Reform. Starmer got lots of unfair criticism, in my view, for not prioritizing liberal voters. I think there's a certain amount of class prejudice in Reform-curious voters being irredeemably lost. Why don't people say "you can't outGreen the Greens?"

Burnham certainly had a good result in Makerfield. He's kept Mahmood on. He's trying to do what was scornfully called by the media, Blue Labour. He's a more convincing frontman for that than Starmer.

[Oboogie]

Most people understand "the North" as political shorthand.

Do they? I'd love to see some evidence of that claim.
As someone who has lived in the North and the South my anecdotal experience is that most people adhere to tired and inaccurate biases.

[Boiler]

I'm sure it, like so many things, depends on your position. For me, "the North" refers to "the North of England" and from here I take that to be from Lancashire and Yorkshire northwards.

[davidjay]

A bit more accuracy would be welcome. It's not Downing Street North, it's Downing Street Manchester.

[Oboogie]

I'm sure it, like so many things, depends on your position. For me, "the North" refers to "the North of England" and from here I take that to be from Lancashire and Yorkshire northwards.

Well, Haltwhistle in Northumberland is the halfway point of Britain so, geographically speaking, Manchester's in the South.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Northumbria is north, Wales is west, Mercia is middle, Wessex is south and East Anglia is just a bit odd.