[Abernathy]

I might be jumping the gun in starting a new thread here, but I think it might be worth contemplating the possibility of the 300 year old United Kingdom’s end. For the first time, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are all led by nationalist leaders whose common objective is to secede from the UK and become independent states, in Northern Ireland’s case to be re-uniited with the rest of the island of Ireland. Interestingly, all three leaderships also favour the future of their independent nations as being within the European Union (something which I at least find encouraging). It’d be messy as hell, but could it happen ? What are the implications for a future England ? What can the union-supporting parties do to prevent it ? Would it suit a Reform UK PM Farage ?

Get discussin’ …

[Rosvanian]

I'm really torn on this. If I was Welsh or Scottish or Northern Irish I suspect I would be fully supportive of breaking away from the union from an emotional perspective. On the other hand, surely we're stronger together. As for Farage, I don't think the bulk of his supporters give a shit about the Celtic nations - better off without them.

[Youngian]

Regional sovereign unions like the Benelux Union and the Nordic Council work perfectly well as the participant nations are sovereign equals who come to together to discuss what they wish to do collectively as a joint enterprise. Britain and Ireland already do it producing projects like the common travel area.
While even Sinn Fein don't want hard borders or customs posts with Wales, Scotland and England, it'll be English gammons frothing at the mouth wanting borders on the Severn Bridge and Berwick.
This is not to say there aren’t British institutions worth continuing for now especially in defence while Putin's sabre rattling at Europe.
The British state is essentially an 18th century imperial Europe edifice, the reasons for its formation no longer exist.

[Youngian]

As for Farage, I don't think the bulk of his supporters give a shit about the Celtic nations - better off without them.

The United Kingdom maybe regarded as English nationalism with bells on by its distractors but it is still exitential for Farage and the Tories. There are of course as you say a large swathe of Tory and Reform voters who'd prefer an English state. Alex Salmond was able to hook up some reactionary elements to his left leaning civic nationalist project.
I see an independent England as an opportunity to jettison the flummery of the British state with its OBEs, titles and cap doffing nonsense and starting again. If it means dressing up as St George and hoodwinking middle England like Salmond did with Tartan Tories, so be it.

[Bones McCoy]

The real prize is establishing a North Sea union with Norway - and maybe Denmark.

Fantasy thinking - I know.

[mattomac]

I’m not sure it’s entirely possible. Wales voted to leave and the idea seems to join the Euro. Not sure Spain would like this idea either.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

The real prize is establishing a North Sea union with Norway - and maybe Denmark.

Fantasy thinking - I know.

You silly Cnut…

[Oboogie]

I’m not sure it’s entirely possible. Wales voted to leave and the idea seems to join the Euro. Not sure Spain would like this idea either.

It'd certainly delay joining the EU considerably, for a start the independence negotiations would take years. Then each country would need to introduce their own currencies and negotiate new trade deals around the world. In order to apply for EU membership, each country will need to demonstrate fiscal stability and solvency with their new currencies and economies - what period satisfy the EU I don't think is specified. There are also various other spending commitments which must be met eg defence. How long Wales, Scotland and England would take to meet these conditions, I've no idea, but it won't be quick.

[Youngian]

I’m not sure it’s entirely possible. Wales voted to leave and the idea seems to join the Euro. Not sure Spain would like this idea either.

It'd certainly delay joining the EU considerably, for a start the independence negotiations would take years. Then each country would need to introduce their own currencies and negotiate new trade deals around the world. In order to apply for EU membership, each country will need to demonstrate fiscal stability and solvency with their new currencies and economies - what period satisfy the EU I don't think is specified. There are also various other spending commitments which must be met eg defence. How long Wales, Scotland and England would take to meet these conditions, I've no idea, but it won't be quick.

Would this be harder or easier than say Estonia or Slovenia in the 90s moving from a Soviet or Yugoslav Republic to a sovereign state?

[Youngian]

The real prize is establishing a North Sea union with Norway - and maybe Denmark.

Fantasy thinking - I know.

With Gainsborough as the capital of England and Denmark. As it was under King Sweyn Forkbeard's shortlived union
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news ... ve-5583328

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Not exactly...

Sven's base, not a capital.

'Local paper aggrandises local history in an embarrassing manner' story...

The Norse 'capital' was, of course, Jorvik. Cnut's capital for his Scandinavian empire was Wintanceaster - Winchester