[davidjay]

The time for a "proper debate" on immigration was twenty years ago. That ship has long sailed and the general belief now is that we take more immigrants than any other country and they come here for the most generous benefits in the world. Debunking those myths is the only way the government has got any hope of a proper, humane and morally decent solution to the problem.

[The Weeping Angel]

Some interesting points about the care visas made here, by someone not at all happy about the overall language or policies.

Short version- the system inherited is terrible, and there were loads of people ripped off by rogue organisations who want to work in care and haven't been able to. The Government is actually getting them into care jobs.

Which again raises the question. How has Starmer managed to contrive overwhelming liberal-left opposition from all of this?

https://bsky.app/profile/lukepiper.bsky ... lovbb35fuc

Well, Starmer's speech didn't help matters. At the same time, I feel that with a segment of left-liberal opinion just won't accept anything less than immigration is good.

[Abernathy]

Well, I'd say that I'm part of that segment of left-liberal opinion, and I do take the view that inward immigration to the UK is overwhelmingly a very good thing. But I also recognise that in a 21st century in which movements of people from multiple locii to other more prosperous/safer/ cooler/ richer in water resources locii (of which the UK is one), some basic and robust controls on immigration levels is required.

It's just that the exploitation of that by right-wing , lying, racist grifters to win power via the votes of simpletons makes my skin crawl.

[mattomac]

I’m a bit disappointed about the Russell Group obsession when it comes to Universities, then again I wonder if the lower universities they talk about are these ones set up on a whim when the Conservatives opened the market.

[The Weeping Angel]

Panic. Probably not just at Reform, but also at the Democrats and other Labour-type parties losing support over immigration to populist parties. It's often said that those various Labour-type parties all did it wrong by moving right on immigration, but I don't really see many examples of parties who didn't and then romped home in elections. The nearest anyone has in Sanchez is Spain, but last time I checked he was behind in the polls despite the economy doing well.

Ian Dunt's got a great idea just don't have any borders.

[The Weeping Angel]

Dan Hodges's thinks Starmer's speech was politically insane.

[NevTheSweeper]

Labour has gone full fascist. All to appeal to mythical white working class Red Wall voters. Even sympathetic commentators have had enough. MPs are in turmoil. They seem determined to make things worse for EVERYONE. The news media have bitten Starmer's hand, but will not let go. In 2029 Labour will be gone.