[Tubby Isaacs]

Thirded.

Hope things go ok.

[Crabcakes]

Fourthed. I hope things go as well as they realistically can at this point.

[davidjay]

Thank you all. It's a strange and unpleasant situation, in that she's physically still strong, she's coherent although not making sense and aware of her surroundings but doesn't know where she is. Speaking to the doctor I said that I knew what I'd like to happen and with magnificent understanding he replied. "I wish more families were like that."

What she has now will kill her sooner rather than later, her oldest friend went the same way without the dementia and her final weeks were horrendous for all concerned.

[Watchman]

L can only echo what others have said

[Tubby Isaacs]

Here we go again. Headline.

At least five more MPs decide to vote against England and Wales assisted dying bill

Subheading (not visible from the front page)

With two others moving to vote in favour, and a previous majority of 55, the bill seems likely to pass next stage

Why is the headline writer/ editor trying to create this impression of a failing bill?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... dying-bill

[Yug]

I'm assuming that since the Times and Torygraph turned into shite rags the Grauniad has been feeling a bit left out, and has decided to join the race to the bottom.

[Tubby Isaacs]

An article against assisted dying.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t#comments

This caught my eye.

It is not beyond the realm of imagination to consider that a doctor (with or without consultation with the patient; the law gives them extraordinary power) could offer up a shortened life expectancy in order to help, or indeed nudge, a patient along the road to an assisted death. Talk of how much money and resources assisted dying coul.d save the NHS, along with the bill’s weak definition of coercion, only makes this horrific scenario more likely

There we go. Opponents ask for a financial projection, at first claiming the NHS can't cope with it. Projection produced that there won't be a net cost. Then that's bad too. Let's all spend extra money on extra suffering, eh?

If doctors are not to be trusted because they'll kill disabled people, where does that leave ordinary members of the public taking them to Dignitas?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Here we go again. Headline.

At least five more MPs decide to vote against England and Wales assisted dying bill

Subheading (not visible from the front page)

With two others moving to vote in favour, and a previous majority of 55, the bill seems likely to pass next stage

Why is the headline writer/ editor trying to create this impression of a failing bill?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... dying-bill

It's the Guardian.

[Crabcakes]

An article against assisted dying.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t#comments

This caught my eye.

It is not beyond the realm of imagination to consider that a doctor (with or without consultation with the patient; the law gives them extraordinary power) could offer up a shortened life expectancy in order to help, or indeed nudge, a patient along the road to an assisted death. Talk of how much money and resources assisted dying coul.d save the NHS, along with the bill’s weak definition of coercion, only makes this horrific scenario more likely

There we go. Opponents ask for a financial projection, at first claiming the NHS can't cope with it. Projection produced that there won't be a net cost. Then that's bad too. Let's all spend extra money on extra suffering, eh?

If doctors are not to be trusted because they'll kill disabled people, where does that leave ordinary members of the public taking them to Dignitas?

This is truly desperate stuff. Are we really expected to believe the only thing preventing vast numbers of doctors - who *already* literally have the power of life and death over people at their most vulnerable - becoming serial killers is that currently assisted dying isn’t legal, and that the moment it is they’ll switch to become motivated only by the NHS bottom line rather than things like, I dunno, wanting to help people?

[Andy McDandy]

It's the anti-abortion arguments in a way.

"Yeah but what if....?"

"Yes, we've considered that and we have mitigations and safety mechnaisms in place and we've minimised risk, and..."

"Yeah, but what if...?

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is truly desperate stuff. Are we really expected to believe the only thing preventing vast numbers of doctors - who *already* literally have the power of life and death over people at their most vulnerable - becoming serial killers is that currently assisted dying isn’t legal, and that the moment it is they’ll switch to become motivated only by the NHS bottom line rather than things like, I dunno, wanting to help people?

Doctors may not want to be serial killers, but they are subject to something called "systemic biases". Until these are eradicated to the satisfaction of the writer, the suffering must go on. Forever, I presume.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That article also had this rather baffling quote in it.

Instead, we are told that being terminally ill is, quite literally, a fate worse than death. The public – and MPs – need to ask themselves if they believe the wheelchair user they see enjoying time with friends in their local cafe would really be better off dead.

[Yug]

That article also had this rather baffling quote in it.

Instead, we are told that being terminally ill is, quite literally, a fate worse than death. The public – and MPs – need to ask themselves if they believe the wheelchair user they see enjoying time with friends in their local cafe would really be better off dead.

How does one conflate disability with being in the final stage of a terminal illness? Unless they're acting in very bad faith, or are a total moron.

I've read some bollocks in my time, but this really takes the biscuit.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yep. And anyway, it's not being terminally ill which is a fate worse than death. It's being terminally ill in agony.