[RedSparrows]

I can't keep up with politics. It makes sense at times when people say 'authenticity matters': Farage has fans cos he's committed to an idea and bla bla. Then at other times it makes absolute sense that authenticity matters not a jot: not true authenticity, anyway. Trump is the clear example there.

Maybe it's really just all vibes. Urgh.

[Youngian]

It's amazing that Farage doesn't seem to have been hurt by Brexit being not very popular.

Starmer wants a quiet life on Brexit so he's not sticking it to Farage on Brexit or blaming him for the immigration rise. Burnham is, perhaps he can provide some leadership on the matter in the wake of Keir's vacuum.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Interesting, because Burnham was previously very careful not to alienate Brexiters in Wigan, Rochdale, Oldham etc. Maybe Sir Keir will get more confident. One approach might be to tie Farage to No Deal Brexit specifically, which was never very popular?

[Andy McDandy]

Possibly, but as Trump and Johnson showed, if people think of you as a devil-may-care maverick, then "Yeah, yeah, whatever. I may have said that but I've changed my mind!" can work. Because let's face it, we've all done similar.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Trump's thing is that he never admits he was wrong. Farage seems to do more of that, but I wonder if that'll be tenable when he gets more scrutiny. Or "if", I should say. It being already massively overdue.

[Crabcakes]

It's amazing that Farage doesn't seem to have been hurt by Brexit being not very popular. I guess that's Saunders' point.

I think the Farage not getting his fair share of shit for Brexit thing comes from two things:
1. If you believed in Brexit, then you’re a fucking idiot in the first place, so…
2. You’ll equally believe Farage’s claim that it’s not Brexit that’s bad, but the people who implemented their version of it made it bad through them having not done it properly and their outright incompetence.

And while the latter point is correct - all the characters like Frost, Raab, Davis, Barclay etc were all to a man woefully underskilled for such a difficult task and hamstrung yet further by their vastly overinflated assessment of their own abilities - his assertion he’d do it better is of course also bollocks, because you can’t do a terrible, stupid, self-harming act borne of xenophobia and greed ‘better’. You can at absolute best try and minimise the damage.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Quite the kick up the arse.

[The Weeping Angel]

Robert Saunders made an excellent point that Starmer wasn't aping Powell, but he was wholesale accepting populist logic - and that the one thing Farage shows is that with conviction and persistence, political logic can be made to work for you, not against you. Sure, Farage has been weevling on a long timeline, and Labour have a fixed period before the next GE, but it's a telling point in principle.

Yes, that was an excellent thread. I didn't quite agree that Starmer was leaning into "establishment immigration conspiracy" though, the criticism was explicitly of Johnson. But I wouldn't have gone there, certainly not in those terms.

It's amazing that Farage doesn't seem to have been hurt by Brexit being not very popular. I guess that's Saunders' point.

I think it's because a lot of people tend to think of Brexit as a Tory thing.

[NevTheSweeper]

Labour's deportation plan. Shades of Trump ?

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Guardian is quite the spectacle. Labour has said it disagrees with Monbiot about planning. The headline describes this as Labour “denouncing” him.

And they really don’t like the growth BTL. Nuggets like “it’s not growth that matters, it’s redistribution” and “massive NHS cuts” (the budget has gone up a lot) and “people are being made poorer” (wages continuing to rise faster than inflation). And my fave: 0.7% is nothing, nobody will notice.

There’s a Kipper who commentates regularly who mostly talks rubbish, He’s at least come up with a proper argument, that firms could have done a load of extra work ahead of NI rises. Team Jez can’t do better than “yes but no but”.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Labour's deportation plan. Shades of Trump ?

I’m sure they’re literally sending UK citizens and legal residents to El Salvador.

[Boiler]

The Guardian is quite the spectacle. Labour has said it disagrees with Monbiot about planning. The headline describes this as Labour “denouncing” him.

And they really don’t like the growth BTL. Nuggets like “it’s not growth that matters, it’s redistribution” and “massive NHS cuts” (the budget has gone up a lot) and “people are being made poorer” (wages continuing to rise faster than inflation). And my fave: 0.7% is nothing, nobody will notice.

There’s a Kipper who commentates regularly who mostly talks rubbish, He’s at least come up with a proper argument, that firms could have done a load of extra work ahead of NI rises. Team Jez can’t do better than “yes but no but”.

Blimey Tubbs, after enduring that lot have you booked into somewhere for rehab?

[The Weeping Angel]

The Guardian is quite the spectacle. Labour has said it disagrees with Monbiot about planning. The headline describes this as Labour “denouncing” him.

And they really don’t like the growth BTL. Nuggets like “it’s not growth that matters, it’s redistribution” and “massive NHS cuts” (the budget has gone up a lot) and “people are being made poorer” (wages continuing to rise faster than inflation). And my fave: 0.7% is nothing, nobody will notice.

There’s a Kipper who commentates regularly who mostly talks rubbish, He’s at least come up with a proper argument, that firms could have done a load of extra work ahead of NI rises. Team Jez can’t do better than “yes but no but”.

By denounced he means a letter was sent to the Guardian disagreeing with him.

[Youngian]

Modest as 0.7% sounds it's a relief not to be sucked into Trump's maelstrom of shit.

[Tubby Isaacs]

He’s not shy of dishing it out himself, is he? He’s does put lots of links to sources but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t do polemic too.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Modest as 0.7% sounds it's a relief not to be sucked into Trump's maelstrom of shit.

Yep. Hopefully the respite from the tariffs can keep some of the momentum up, but it will probably slow. Might have been better if the country wasn't being told by everybody it was going down the pan because of Rachel from Accounts, who fiddled expenses in her previous job (ie bought a present for the boss out of company petty cash, which I'm assuming was common practice).

Maybe the Government could have stuck it to Reform by keeping its mouth shut on Monday and just doing regular comms that I could draft from here for free. "Inherited a mess, we never said it would be easy, but we're improving trade, investing and here's some modest growth"

[Tubby Isaacs]

Blimey Tubbs, after enduring that lot have you booked into somewhere for rehab?

Ha ha, I had to stop posting because I kept getting sucked in by people it wasn't worth arguing with.

[The Weeping Angel]

As a rule I try to avoid the Guardian comment section where possible.

[mattomac]

As a rule I try to avoid the Guardian comment section where possible.

To be fair it’s a good rule for any comment section. Though one of FB improvements is highlighting the idiotic one.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I find it quite entertaining now I've stopped commenting myself. There are a few people I bookmark who make most of the points I would, except better.