[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't really get Sam's point there. "Fixing the roof", as I understand it, means getting the structure right. The structure aspect of the plan seems fine, aiming to get more tackled sooner outside of hospitals. That would help the performance of hospitals.

I take the point that restructuring costs, and there's as yet not much extra money.

[The Weeping Angel]

Starmer and Macron to announce a new one in one out deal over small boats.

[Abernathy]

The initial pilot scheme sounds very promising, but it’ll need to operate on a much biger scale than the initial 50 migrants per week that the pilot scheme will start with (EU agreement/clearance presumed).

You can see how it is intended to work:

- Migrant person arrives on a small boat crossing.
- Migrant is immediately sent back to France.
- Another - different - migrant is then allowed to come to the UK from France , legally and safely. These people will normally be those with relatives already (legitimately) in the UK, with some kind of connection to the UK, or a valid asylum claim. Each person coming under this arrangement will be rigorously security checked, and this route will not be available to anyone who has previously attempted illegally to make the channel crossing.

If this gets up and running, you can see that it should deter people from crossing the channel via the small boats/people smuggling route. It certainly ought to be a better deterrent than the Rwanda scheme.

There are questions still to be answered, and no doubt it will be subject to legal challenges, but I think this is an imaginative and very welcome initiative, not least because it signifies more co-operation with the French and the EU.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Good summary.

I have noticed that some reporters are now referring to 'irregular' rather than 'illegal' migrants.

[Killer Whale]

People don't really want to 'stop the boats' or 'smash the gangs'. They want to stop the brown people.

Nevertheless, this scheme will, one would hope, start to drive a wedge between unashamed racists and those who would rather not be so public about it.

[Andy McDandy]

Something people seem to be overlooking is the money element. Nobody is doing this for the fun of it.

Taking overloaded boats out into the channel is as risky for the pilot as it is for the passengers. One of the reasons for the high cost. Provide a cheaper (or even free) migration route, that treats migrants fairly, and you'll put the boat gangs out of business, save for the ones who have the cash and don't want to trip up the authorities.

I saw an article quoting the cost of passage as £2,500. That's a hell of a lot. The risky boat crossing is a desperate punt, everything on one throw of the dice.

[mattomac]

I don't really get Sam's point there. "Fixing the roof", as I understand it, means getting the structure right. The structure aspect of the plan seems fine, aiming to get more tackled sooner outside of hospitals. That would help the performance of hospitals.

I take the point that restructuring costs, and there's as yet not much extra money.

He's got a book to sell with all the answers, I had a run in with him when he suggested reversing NI cuts which would be fine if my Landlord reversed my rent.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't really get what's in the deal for France. Can someone explain? Or is Macron just wanting to help Starmer because the alternatives are not very palatable?

[Tubby Isaacs]

He's got a book to sell with all the answers, I had a run in with him when he suggested reversing NI cuts which would be fine if my Landlord reversed my rent.

Fair point. I do the same sort of thing myself frequently- "just raise tax across the board", but that would not be nice for lots of people.

I like him generally, but he's a bit Stephen Bush, telling us all how to do it, sometimes. I mean, what does he actually know about Health?

[mattomac]

Maybe good working relationships down the line, he did focus on populism in his speech and perhaps this is it. I welcome closer ties and a departure from puerile arguments, I just hope Labour can deliver enough to be able to govern again in 2029 even if that needs another party.

[mattomac]

He's got a book to sell with all the answers, I had a run in with him when he suggested reversing NI cuts which would be fine if my Landlord reversed my rent.

Fair point. I do the same sort of thing myself frequently- "just raise tax across the board", but that would not be nice for lots of people.

I like him generally, but he's a bit Stephen Bush, telling us all how to do it, sometimes. I mean, what does he actually know about Health?

Yeah, I totally understand taxes probably need to be higher but taxes have risen the past 15 years and this country frankly has got worse. If you at least have growth and things are being done then people may be open to it. I think Labour are loathed to rise them in anyway but the press are behaving like absolute shitehawks so even a freeze on allowances is painted as some kind of end times when in actual fact you never heard a peep from them when this happened under the Tories.

As for the health plans on the face of it they look really good, I'll see if they get delivered but some drop in centres can be reworked for instance.

Problem is most of my generation have student loans that on the old system are relatively costly and don't get dumped after 30 years so its another tax really on top of all the rest. I hate the term check your priviledge but it feels sometimes appropriate.

[Killer Whale]

I don't really get what's in the deal for France. Can someone explain? Or is Macron just wanting to help Starmer because the alternatives are not very palatable?

[First reply lost in space]

Presumably hoping to make the gangs irrelevant and thus free up a lot of resources. I suspect some gangs will throw in the towel, while others will just move to cash upfront riskier night crossings where there's less chance of being picked up.

[Tubby Isaacs]

People don't really want to 'stop the boats' or 'smash the gangs'. They want to stop the brown people.

Nevertheless, this scheme will, one would hope, start to drive a wedge between unashamed racists and those who would rather not be so public about it.

It's a lot to do with race, but not exclusively. After all, the "Poles" (as people used to call them) were white Christians, and the Labour Government got murdered in 2010 on immigration.

I don't see any political alternative to trying to reduce crossings as much as possible. I certainly don't see the Government setting up a secure route as being any sort of political runner. Hard to see how that wouldn't increase numbers considerably.

It's said that you "can't compete with the Right on immigration", but there are several successful examples of governments meeting them halfway successfully. Blair's asylum changes reduced the numbers a lot, and left Michael Howard flailing around talking about "school discipline" (not something that was obviously better in the 90s). I noted Jez didn't try to revive the pre-Blair system as leader, despite his opposition at the time.

See also Carney, who's just run on immigration restrictions, as a new broom sorting out the perceived failure of Trudeau. And Australian Labour who accepted the Abbott Government's Operation Secure Borders. I'm sure in both cases, the Right were offering something even stronger, but there may be a decent sized group of voters who are open to the centre/left if they feel that immigration is under control.

What you don't do is gratuitously offensive speeches on immigration.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah, I totally understand taxes probably need to be higher but taxes have risen the past 15 years and this country frankly has got worse. If you at least have growth and things are being done then people may be open to it. I think Labour are loathed to rise them in anyway but the press are behaving like absolute shitehawks so even a freeze on allowances is painted as some kind of end times when in actual fact you never heard a peep from them when this happened under the Tories.

As for the health plans on the face of it they look really good, I'll see if they get delivered but some drop in centres can be reworked for instance.

I like the health plans too. Freedman's scepticism in the bit I read was based on his expectation that the Government will not follow through because it's focussed on measures like waiting lists in the present. We'll have to see if that happens, but my feeling (no more than that) is that the public might be open to the argument that the structure needed fixing first.

I can only hope that the BMA find some way out of where they're heading. I can't think of a bigger gift to the Right, who've said (and in fairness on this occasion have a point) that if you settle pay claims, "they just come back for more".

[Tubby Isaacs]

Unite votes to suspend Angela Rayner membership over Birmingham bin strikes

Unite's never heard of Cabinet collective responsibility then?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yep. Government looks at something. Media says it's happening. Government later says it's not happening, Media says Government has done a U-turn or here "shelved plans". Rince and repeat.

I think it's a shame they aren't making the proposed changes, but every man and his dog has already complained about them, including Martin Lewis, who doesn't have to worry about whether they'd grow the economy.

[The Weeping Angel]

Unite votes to suspend Angela Rayner membership over Birmingham bin strikes

Unite's never heard of Cabinet collective responsibility then?

Apparently she already left Unite months ago.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This would be a good idea. We'd have probably avoided the debacle of the PIP situation if this had been the case before.

[The Weeping Angel]

Top thinking here.

[davidjay]

Top thinking here.

She resigned months ago. And they're making utter fucking idiots of themselves over the strike.