[Tubby Isaacs]

I believe Major did NHS reforms adding something like 6 billion to costs of managing its "dynamic efficient" internal market.

The Act that did that was passed in June 1990, so was under Thatcher rather than Major.

The Full Fact is interesting. Nobody seems to have any idea of the costs/benefits

https://fullfact.org/health/cost-creati ... arket-nhs/

The Citizens Charter was a bit of a joke at the time, but that was actually a substantial and worthwhile change.

[The Weeping Angel]

1, High energy consumption leads to global climate change

No pumping C02 into the atmosphere leads to global climate change decarbonisation is what you do to the grid.

Do you want to try some punctuation in that, please. I can't understand it.

No, pumping CO2 into the atmosphere leads to global climate change. If you want to stop that then you can decarbonise the grid so that air conditioning is less reliant on greenhouse gases. Also, as a country, we need to get over our hang-ups over air conditioning.

[The Weeping Angel]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -172016349

Andy Beckett turns up below the line here to challenge established facts (the OP providing a link) that average earners pay less tax than other places.

I'm sceptical about the assertion that average earners in Britain are paying relatively low taxes. That may apply to income tax, but VAT is high, and council tax is high and rising fast for average earners in some parts of the country. You could also argue that the high and rapidly rising cost of services from privatised utilities is a kind of tax - the Conservatives effectively offloaded the cost of modernising vital infrastructure onto consumers, while allowing the new owners of the utilities to take the profits.

There you go. If challenged, "I'm skeptical"- ie vibes. VAT isn't high compared with most countries, nor are property taxes. Some waffle about privatized utilities too- who owns them is separate from the decision to make bill payers pay for the costs of upgrading them.

The issue we have is that we're no better off from those relatively low taxes because our spare cash just goes into the housing market instead.

Third paragraph

Yet the current Labour government, like others before it, has struggled to devise and promote policies that substantially redistribute wealth. It has proposed or enacted welcome but modest redistributive reforms: removing the tax privileges of non-doms, imposing VAT on private schools, ending the inheritance tax exemption for farmers, removing the winter fuel allowance from wealthier pensioners and reducing the power imbalance between landlords and tenants. But amid the huge controversy these policies have caused – itself a sign of better-off citizens’ sense of entitlement – Labour has either made the argument for greater equality too quietly and tentatively, or not at all.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Air conditioning is bad.

https://www.theguardian.com/thefilter/2 ... st-fans-uk

Do I need air conditioning?
If you’re in the UK, honestly, no. It’s tempting to turn your bedroom into a walk-in fridge on a hot day, but fans are great and use much less electricity (and therefore money and carbon) than air con. Unless you’re on a renewable tariff, electricity use accelerates climate breakdown.

Yeah, this is a strange sentiment. Central heating is bad by the same argument- just heat the bit by your bed, who needs to turn the bedroom into a sauna, and it doesn't get really cold in the UK...

Aviation maybe is an exception, with no obvious route to decarbonization, but I think generally arguments based on not consuming are going to struggle.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Third paragraph

Yet the current Labour government, like others before it, has struggled to devise and promote policies that substantially redistribute wealth. It has proposed or enacted welcome but modest redistributive reforms: removing the tax privileges of non-doms, imposing VAT on private schools, ending the inheritance tax exemption for farmers, removing the winter fuel allowance from wealthier pensioners and reducing the power imbalance between landlords and tenants. But amid the huge controversy these policies have caused – itself a sign of better-off citizens’ sense of entitlement – Labour has either made the argument for greater equality too quietly and tentatively, or not at all.

That's actually a fair minded paragraph, in fairness to him- he's a good writer generally, I was just struck by his attitude to somebody pointing something out to him, with sources, which I didn't think is great.

What he's missing, I think, is that there's a good reason why you don't bang on about how much money you're redistributing- you want the rich to invest and feel welcome as they do it.

He also romanticizes the 70s a bit, for its relative inequality. It's before my time, but my impression is that it didn't feel like a golden age at the time. Almost everybody was agreed about "national decline".

[The Weeping Angel]

Third paragraph

Yet the current Labour government, like others before it, has struggled to devise and promote policies that substantially redistribute wealth. It has proposed or enacted welcome but modest redistributive reforms: removing the tax privileges of non-doms, imposing VAT on private schools, ending the inheritance tax exemption for farmers, removing the winter fuel allowance from wealthier pensioners and reducing the power imbalance between landlords and tenants. But amid the huge controversy these policies have caused – itself a sign of better-off citizens’ sense of entitlement – Labour has either made the argument for greater equality too quietly and tentatively, or not at all.

That's actually a fair minded paragraph, in fairness to him- he's a good writer generally, I was just struck by his attitude to somebody pointing something out to him, with sources, which I didn't think is great.

What he's missing, I think, is that there's a good reason why you don't bang on about how much money you're redistributing- you want the rich to invest and feel welcome as they do it.

He also romanticizes the 70s a bit, for its relative inequality. It's before my time, but my impression is that it didn't feel like a golden age at the time. Almost everybody was agreed about "national decline".

It's more the way he says that those aren't enough, as they aren't making the argument for inequality loudly enough. Reading both of Sandbrook's books on the 70s, it's striking how much everyone thought the country was going to the dogs and not just on the right.

[The Weeping Angel]

AC makes up about 3% of our emissions.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

No pumping C02 into the atmosphere leads to global climate change decarbonisation is what you do to the grid.

Do you want to try some punctuation in that, please. I can't understand it.

No, pumping CO2 into the atmosphere leads to global climate change. If you want to stop that then you can decarbonise the grid so that air conditioning is less reliant on greenhouse gases. Also, as a country, we need to get over our hang-ups over air conditioning.

Thank you, but I shouldn't have to ask. I understand what you are saying, but the construction of AC units and the power generation to work them adds to greenhouse gasses.

[The Weeping Angel]

Well, you could say the same about heat pumps, but plenty of people have them.

[kreuzberger]

People who acquire heat pumps are probably exclusively prior owners of a heating system. Conservatively, that means a 50% reduction of their CO2 emissions.

People who acquire aircon systems are probably exclusively those who didn't previously own a cooling system. That means that they are ratcheting up their CO2 emissions.

There seems to be only two people who on the Island don't get this. One is the alarmingly thick Claire Coutinho, who is trying to start a culture war on this very subject.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Well, you could say the same about heat pumps, but plenty of people have them.

Yes, and the same s true for vibrating dildoes, coffee percolators and electric scooters...

[The Weeping Angel]

AC is fully electrified; it accounts for 3% of our emissions. So this attitude of it's bad and we shouldn't use it is just bizarre,

[kreuzberger]

AC accounts for more emissions than air transportation. Still think that both are a great idea?

[The Weeping Angel]

It accounts for 3% of our emissions.

[kreuzberger]

It accounts for 3% of our emissions.

Indeed. And air travel?

The point is that you add a few percentage points here and a few there, and it soon adds up to a chunk of (climate) chance.

Unless, of course, you just shout "weather!!1!" in the saloon bar.

[Watchman]

To be honest, how much of a requirement is air-con in a British house, how often do we have continuous temperatures as high as we are currently experiencing, ( climate change considerations withstanding). A few strategically placed fans seems to do the job

[The Weeping Angel]

It accounts for 3% of our emissions.

Indeed. And air travel?

The point is that you add a few percentage points here and a few there, and it soon adds up to a chunk of (climate) chance.

Unless, of course, you just shout "weather!!1!" in the saloon bar.

Who said anything about air travel? The fact is, we have to get over our weird dislike of air conditioning; it's fully electrified and it works.

[The Weeping Angel]

To be honest, how much of a requirement is air-con in a British house, how often do we have continuous temperatures as high as we are currently experiencing, ( climate change considerations withstanding). A few strategically placed fans seems to do the job

We'll be seeing more days like this in the future.