[The Weeping Angel]

As the title says I'm becoming disillusioned with the left. I'm not about to join Reform or start watching GB News. But I am becoming disillusioned with the left. Let me give people an example of that disillusion nationalisation of the railways, I can remember when the left demanded it happen and considered it a sign of how left-wing. Well it's happening right now and the left it seems have decided that it doesn't matter or that it isn't happening. other policies as well are just dismissed out of hand. Another area is NIMBYism look at how many left-wing people oppose development often for spurious reasons. There's other things I'm not happy aboyt either the obsession with ideological purity, embracing of conspiracy theories, support for fringe causes amongst others.

What do you all think?

[Andy McDandy]

It's not just on the far left. You'll find it at any extreme. The policy issues you cite are plain old goalpost moving. It happens. I'm of the opinion that the left/progressive path is always preferable to the reactionary/right one, but it's a harder sell. Sadly the right is quicker, easier, more seductive.

[Watchman]

I think this needs a refined definition of exactly what is meant by “left”

[satnav]

It is disappointing that the left seem to spend more time fighting with each other rather than uniting against the threat of Reform. Whilst many on the left might not like Starmer the politics of Farage are utterly vile and need to be challenged at every opportunity.

[Crabcakes]

When you largely want what’s best for yourself, it’s easy to see working with others - even those you loathe - as a means to an end. When you largely want what’s best for other people - or think you *know* what’s best for other people - working with those you disagree with on some common ground can mean you have to compromise or disagree on other common ground, which hurts both your and their aims. So it’s harder to do.

It’s why the left fight while the right unite. The goals aren’t the same but you have to play the same game to get there.

[Oboogie]

It is disappointing that the left seem to spend more time fighting with each other rather than uniting against the threat of Reform. Whilst many on the left might not like Starmer the politics of Farage are utterly vile and need to be challenged at every opportunity.

But the Corbynistas would tell you that Starmer is far worse than Farage.

[RedSparrows]

Sounds like what you tire of is not positions and ideas that are left-wing, more the way the game is played.

Sadly, this is a perennial left-wing issue and nobody has yet found a sensible solution.

But there's also lots of space between 'irritating tossers' and 'Farage', and that doesn't have to be 'centrist'.

[Yug]

While my personal views might be more hard left, I can't bring myself to vote for those infighting idiots who think ideological purity is more important than people. It's the centrists who stick together and get things done.

'Compromise' is not a dirty word.

[Andy McDandy]

To the irritating tossers and Tankies on the left, Starmer and Farage are both evidence of a rotten system that needs to be pulled down root and branch and replaced by the glorious socialist republic of Jezza. People with different opinions are brainwashed, or ignorant (if not overtly evil). If still in doubt, blame the CIA/"Big [whatever]". That's their assessment, and answer to, everything.

Their nail is that they aren't in power. Their hammer is Jez.

[Boiler]

Christ, for a minute I thought I was looking at Fenton's Fuckwit but mercifully, it was Andy illustrating FF's thinking...

[davidjay]

I think it was at an early eighties conference that Manny Shinwell said something along the lines of "When we founded the ILP we weren't bothered with Marxist theory. We were too busy getting people decent housing."

[Andy McDandy]

Houses, eh? A short journey from there to being a rentier. Twisted by decades of Hollywood (read: CIA) propaganda, the British public have been conned into believing that "having a house" is the answer to all their ills. Just a rebranding of Victory Gin. Orwell warned against this. Still, the decent British working class will see through these lies and when Jezza sweeps to power...(cont. p.94)

[Boiler]

'e's doin' it again...

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm not a fan, which will probably not surprise many people here. There are some problems with excluding the left though.

I don't like the way they represent themselves as "the conscience of the party", that sort of thing. But that's still a role someone has to play. If they're not there, then you're going to get more mistakes like the PIP disaster. (And I say that as someone who accepts the need for PIP reform, albeit gradual, like was done by Blair-Brown).

And Labour's never won without the left. Perhaps a bunch of Lib Dems can be attracted over where they're needed- the Lib Dems have been the biggest beneficiary of Labour's loss of support so far. But against that is the loss of supporters to the Greens. It's much easier to keep people on board when the economy is growing- "don't like our unions policy, but you like the new hospital, right?" as Brown-Blair could do. Maybe growth will improve more than the OBR think. I think the comms could be a lot more careful in not alienating. Most people want people with no right to be in the country to be deported, that's fine, and tell people you're doing it, but don't do shit speeches like Starmer did. Because if you lose people unnecessarily, they won't stick up for you. And who will?

[Tubby Isaacs]

One thing that I'm particularly irritated about with the proper left is the lack of recognition for the progressive stuff the Government has done. Workers rights and the minimum wage don't get mentioned at all. The industrial policy is never mentioned, which is something that the left has claimed to care a lot about before. The tax rises on the wealthy, done in the teeth of opposition from the rightwing press (who Labour are apparently terrified of) are just treated as nothing because "£24bn wealth tax".

[Nigredo]

I remain inclined to the ideals of the political left but I am wearied by the same old voices tediously reciting the same old talking points. Magic Grandad still droning on about his "Peace & Justice" project almost a decade later, is there nobody else with any other policy proposal that they could start platforming? I suppose Zarah Sultana is a fresh face but not exactly on ideas, and I am very wary of her using Corbyn's clout and single issue Gaza voters to propel her career trajectory.

The holier than thou shit is wearing thin as well, particularly as the likes of Owen Jones and Grace Blakeley regard their leftist stances as holding them above being debased grifters even though they reheat un-nuanced populist pablum critiques (which Tony Benn was saying far more eruditely decades ago) to keep a steady income flowing, and they'll probably be satisfied for the status quo to keep rumbling on so they can continue to posture.

[Yug]

One thing that I'm particularly irritated about with the proper left is the lack of recognition for the progressive stuff the Government has done. Workers rights and the minimum wage don't get mentioned at all. The industrial policy is never mentioned, which is something that the left has claimed to care a lot about before. The tax rises on the wealthy, done in the teeth of opposition from the rightwing press (who Labour are apparently terrified of) are just treated as nothing because "£24bn wealth tax".

Are you surprised Tubby? These are the same people who tell us the years 1997-2010 were a complete disaster with absolutely no progressive policies being implemented because Iraq.

I'm not going to be kind about them. They're just stupid cunts. Posturing, blinkered, stupid cunts for whom only their (unattainable) perfect ideal is good enough.

They are fules and I diskard them.

[Oboogie]

One thing that I'm particularly irritated about with the proper left is the lack of recognition for the progressive stuff the Government has done. Workers rights and the minimum wage don't get mentioned at all. The industrial policy is never mentioned, which is something that the left has claimed to care a lot about before. The tax rises on the wealthy, done in the teeth of opposition from the rightwing press (who Labour are apparently terrified of) are just treated as nothing because "£24bn wealth tax".

I take issue with your use of the term "proper left" (apologies if it was tongue in cheek). These people have no interest in delivering any of the policies you speak of. They don't simply neglect to mention it when someone else delivers them, they blatantly deny that it's happening.
Proper Lefties deliver left-wing policies rather than attack the people who are actually delivering them.
Corbynistas are liars - far from "proper" they are Temu Lefties who promise nice things but deliver jack shit.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I usually say Proper Left, to make it clear I'm being sarcastic. You're right, they're the proper left in their own minds.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I remain inclined to the ideals of the political left but I am wearied by the same old voices tediously reciting the same old talking points. Magic Grandad still droning on about his "Peace & Justice" project almost a decade later, is there nobody else with any other policy proposal that they could start platforming? I suppose Zarah Sultana is a fresh face but not exactly on ideas, and I am very wary of her using Corbyn's clout and single issue Gaza voters to propel her career trajectory.

The holier than thou shit is wearing thin as well, particularly as the likes of Owen Jones and Grace Blakeley regard their leftist stances as holding them above being debased grifters even though they reheat un-nuanced populist pablum critiques (which Tony Benn was saying far more eruditely decades ago) to keep a steady income flowing, and they'll probably be satisfied for the status quo to keep rumbling on so they can continue to posture.

Yep.

It's one of the great irregular verbs.

We (the Proper Left) do pithy hard hitting analysis.
You (the centrists) do simplistic rubbish.