[Abernathy]

Maybe, once upon a time, we had a dedicated thread to talk about this, but I think it’s gone. Maybe time for a new discussion.

Apparently, according to the most recent polling, the issue of asylum and immigration is the most important issue for voters. The number one, most serious and urgent issue facing the country, more important even than the economy & the cost of living, and the NHS.

What has caused this startling change in peoples’ priorities ?

Well, right-wing agitators, Farage, Reform, Badenoch, Yaxley-Lennon, the Daily Mail, the Express, etc, etc, etc. The burgeoning figures on small fucking boats in a summer of fine weather and calm waters sur la manche.

My own view? I’m skeptical, annoyed, disappointed, bewildered even, and yes, even a bit scared. See, the thing is, I am incredibly relaxed on the “issue” of immigration (and I sometimes wonder if I’m the only one in the country). I really don’t care if increasing numbers of people want to come and share their lives with us here in the UK. In fact I welcome it. It is cultural enrichment and economic benefit for the UK I do recognise that there is an issue about small boat crossings, and that these need to be curtailed, but I’m happy that our government is doing its absolute best to address things and will achieve a resolution of sorts of the issue in time. And I absolutely hate the racism, the hatred, the xenophobia, the bogus patriotism that is being deliberately whipped up by cunts for their own short-term electoral benefit. I want desperately to believe that British people are better than that. I don’t want to live in a country where those hateful attitudes prevail.

[davidjay]

I agree with most of the above. However, there are a few newly arrived and second-generation immigrants spoiling it for the rest. Those of us on the side of the angels shouldn't be afraid to say that there are certain cultures for whom laws are there to be ignored. Not to do so provides ammunition for the other lot.

[Abernathy]

IThose of us on the side of the angels shouldn't be afraid to say that there are certain cultures for whom laws are there to be ignored.

Which specific cultures are those, then? Where is the evidence that that is the case ?

[davidjay]

The conviction rate amongst the Pakistani community is almost three times higher than amongst the Indian. My own experience in the court system brought me into contact with disproportionate numbers of Romanians and Albanians. The immigration debate should include why these things happen and how they can be solved.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Social class? I think the Bangladeshi imprisonment rate is a bit higher than the White rate. I’d guess that adjusting for social class would put the Bangladeshi rate lower.

[Abernathy]

I think that when you start to characterise entire “cultures” or nationalities in that way, you are on very dodgy ground indeed. It’s what Farage, Yaxley-Lennon, and the rest are asking us to believe - that whole groups of foreigners are coming to the UK to commit crime, rape and assault women and children , and steal from and cheat “decent” people, and that they should be kept out because of that. It’s substantially the thinking that gave us Donald Trump 2.0.

I don’t think it’s a conclusion that can safely , or should, be drawn, notwithstanding the alleged comparatively higher conviction rates among some ethnic groups that you cite. In as much as those comparatively higher conviction rates are a problem, they are an entirely separate problem from the issue of asylum & immigration, and absolutely should not be conflated with it.

Nigel Farage is, as we speak, standing up and claiming that he “fears” the country is on the brink of “public disorder” because of immigration. What he means, of course, is that he hopes that there will be public disorder. It is all part of his agenda to win power through striking fear into peoples’ hearts and fomenting anger and resentment. I don’t want that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

You also have to take into account the age and sex of each group. Young men commit the most crime everywhere. So if you recruit lots of builders from somewhere, you’ll have a higher crime rate than among a group where lots of nurses have been recruited.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

It is, however, statistically established that, on average, the educational attainment in people of Pakistani heritage is not as high as those of Indian heritage. The thinking is that it is due partly to social class, partly due to the filtering of those who have chosen to come to Britain, and partly due to social and religious attitudes.