Mailwatch(ed) Forum

The nursing bursary helped a lot of working class kids get through university. Very low hanging fruit there.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:01 pm On origin countries. I haven't read it.

Cuba discovered exporting skilled medical staff can be an earner. And at least the Philippino staff get paid.

I'm with Tony Yates on this. Though the rest of the speech has positive things to say, and there's a perfectly legitimate question about training more UK people up to vacancies, this was a terrible phrase to use. And as Tony says BTL, it's part of silly nods by Labour to economic nationalism.

I see Angela Rayner is leading on the Michelle Mone stuff. She's consistently led on the "sleaze" stuff., and it's very obviously a plan that she and Starmer have agreed. I like it.

It's not the only area where Starmer does that. Cooper and Reeves get to lead on their briefs too. It's an interesting tactic- the public generally don't remember many Opposition politicians. Cameron ran on a very personal ticket- Dominic Grieve was Shadow Home Secretary, and I doubt he got recognised in Beaconsfield High Street. So Starmer is being quite bold in projecting a "team", especially where he has decent personal ratings. See whether this works. I hope it does, obviously.

Nigredo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:46 pm

As I posted elsewhere, The Spectator awarded Corbyn Politician Of The Year in 2017 and Campaigner Of The Year in 2015, I trust Owen was as outraged about that.

The guy is such a tit.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:04 pm I'm with Tony Yates on this. Though the rest of the speech has positive things to say, and there's a perfectly legitimate question about training more UK people up to vacancies, this was a terrible phrase to use. And as Tony says BTL, it's part of silly nods by Labour to economic nationalism.

Of course this hasn't stopped people from claiming that Starmer is far right

https://eand.co/how-bleak-is-britains-f ... eabfb5a8b2

You’d think that right about now, understanding that a majority of Brits Bregret Brexit (sorry about that), the opposition — because after all, the conservatives caused this mess, and they’re still in power — would seize the moment. You’d be completely wrong. Instead, the head of the opposition, Kier Starmer, is out there trying to…out-Trump the Tories. If that sounds desperate, awful, funny, and tragic, that’s because, well, it is.

His latest campaign? To attack immigrants as the cause of Britain’s woes. Let me say it again. The head of the opposition’s latest campaign is to attack immigrants as the cause of Britain’s woes.

That’s not just shameful, it’s — and I don’t say this lightly — goddamned, head-poundingly, achingly idiotic. But don’t take it from me.

Remember how Brits can’t get ambulances because Brexit-style xenophobia drove all those hated “foreigners” — the very ones who drove the ambulances — out of the country? That’s a theme. The CBI — Britain’s biggest business group, it’s Chamber of Commerce, basically — begged the government to rethink it’s xenophobia, because, wait for it, its members need workers, and they can’t find them.

Tony Danker called on politicians to be ‘practical’ about immigration at the CBI’s conference in Birmingham. His speech comes as many firms struggle to recruit staff. He urged leaders to ‘be honest with people’ over the country’s ‘vast’ labour shortages, adding ‘we don’t have the people we need nor do we have the productivity.’

So there’s the entire business community, begging politicians, please, let people in, we don’t have enough workers. Look around! People can’t even get ambulances! We can’t find people to drive trucks, pick fruit, staff tills, and so on. Please — be practical. AKA: not fanatical. And British politics’s response? Go eff yourself. From both sides. It’s absolutely mind-blowing.

Nigredo why have you started posting tweets from Owen Jones?

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:13 pm Nigredo why have you started posting tweets from Owen Jones?

That he is posting again is a bonus for this wee village.

I've stopped bothering to "defend" Keir Starmer against Jones' crass personal vendetta, as it's a bit like defending Nelson Mandela against Richard Littlejohn - completely pointless. I'm perfectly comfortable that Starmer not only has a perfectly aligned "moral compass", he also has the innate pragmatism and political skill needed to lead the Labour Party back to government and rid us of this dreadful Tory government, something the boy Jones' hero was utterly incapable of doing. Jones can thkweam and thkweam until he's thick, but he's a simple Trot disruptor who is no longer worth paying attention to - if he ever was, Carry on shouting at clouds, wee Owen. Naebody's listening.

Oh wow!

Keir Starmer hosted the bosses of a company that provides jobs with decent pay and pensions to thousands of British workers.


Sounds a bit different when you put it that way, don't it.


PS Hello @Nigredo , good to see you back.

BAE are a major employer in Cumbria, the sort of place Labour needs to win. Also, with Corbyn's perceived "softness" a serious factor in many red wall defections to the Tories, this is a good way of countering that narrative.

What's the morality of appearing daily on the Whine show squabbling for coins against Carole Mafuckinglone?

You cannot, no matter how hard you try, get it through to these people that it's far, far harder for Labour to win an election than the Tories. Not only do they have to battle against a biased media and a totally outdated electoral system, but all the Tories have to do is to convince their voters that they're better than Them - whether that be better off, harder working, whiter, more British. Meanwhile, Labour have got to win over the Brexity xenophobe in Hartlepool, the aspirational professional in Clerkenwell, a host of mortgage-paying, two income but still struggling Middle Englanders. And to win those votes they have to, at times, say different things to different people and shake hands with some who they'd rather not touch with a bargepole. That's grown-up politics.

BAE Supply the British Government too. Starmer meeting them doesn't mean they continue to supply Saudi Arabia.

davidjay wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:46 pm You cannot, no matter how hard you try, get it through to these people that it's far, far harder for Labour to win an election than the Tories. Not only do they have to battle against a biased media and a totally outdated electoral system, but all the Tories have to do is to convince their voters that they're better than Them - whether that be better off, harder working, whiter, more British. Meanwhile, Labour have got to win over the Brexity xenophobe in Hartlepool, the aspirational professional in Clerkenwell, a host of mortgage-paying, two income but still struggling Middle Englanders. And to win those votes they have to, at times, say different things to different people and shake hands with some who they'd rather not touch with a bargepole. That's grown-up politics.

Also the inherent double standard in perception on economic moves made by either side.

The pork haystack casually chucks £53,000,000 at a pointless vanity project, he still rides on as The Ledg in many people's minds and gets little barracking or scrutiny.

Sadiq Khan widens the ULEZ net in an attempt to curb healthcare issues arising from pollution (one kid has already succumbed to it, who knows how many more will turn out to be affected) and maybe raise a bit of cash to spend on infrastructure (like that £600,000,000 black hole that got foisted on TFL) white van man down the local cafe is moaning about Labour's economic incompetency and how they'll bring the city to a stand still, and so on and so on.

The deck is rigged and no amount of sit in protests at Conway Hall is going to change that anytime soon.

Back in 2012 Sarah Palin trolled Democrats with the taunt of "How's that 'hope' thing working out?".

To a degree, the right have callousness "priced in". Their entire approach is based around mistrust of big government, acknowledgement and acceptance of inequality, and generalising from the self - if I didn't have an issue with prejudice, why should anyone else? If I'm sensible with my money, why can't other people be? If I don't find something offensive, why should other people take issue?

The left has to inspire, and that's always going to be more difficult. One mistake, one failure, and you're back to square one. Meanwhile the right can fuck up repeatedly and shrug it off with "what did you expect?".

It's so depressing. Dressing to the right is so much easier and requires minimal effort.

(Staahhns to reason, dunnit?)

I think this is why so many media firebrands, burn out, and reinvent themselves as alt-right columnists.
The money's better and you never have to say you're sorry.