Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Abernathy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:24 pm Who on earth would have thought that all these years later, we'd be looking back (sort of) fondly at Thatcher and thinking she wasn't really (comparatively speaking) that bad ?

I think I'd best abandon my long-standing plan to go and piss on her grave.

Abers, I know your tongue is lodged firmly in your cheek, so I'm not having a go, but I'm certainly not looking back (sort of) fondly on Thatcher.
I'm just getting really sick of the infantile level of political debate on social media. It is not a pantomime with saintly Goodies and Baddies who are exclusively irredeemably evil - human beans are far more complicated than that. Apart from her understanding and respect for science, the other enormous difference between Thatcher and Johnson is her ideology and sense of duty. She had a plan which I think she honestly believed was good for the country and she worked hard to deliver it. For the avoidance or any doubt, I think she was fundamentally wrong and her plan was bullshit and the consequences disastrous.
Johnson has no ideology, and no plan. His motivations are greed and feeding his own ego. He has zero interest in doing anything for his country or anyone but a select few who he thinks might be useful to himself. he is fundamentally lazy and does the bare minimum to keep himself in the job.
I forget who it was who said Johnson doesn't want to be Prime Minister but wants to be an ex-Prime Minister, playing the elder statesman touring the world delivering the same after dinner speech for thousands of pounds.

Oboogie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:56 pm I forget who it was who said Johnson doesn't want to be Prime Minister but wants to be an ex-Prime Minister, playing the elder statemen touring the world delivering the same after dinner speech for thousands of pounds.

I believe that was Mr. McDandy of this very parish.

Oboogie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:21 amI've been arguing with anti-vaxxer Tories on Twitter, they claim Thatcher would never contemplate vaccines, masks or ID cards.
They forget Thatcher was a scientist.
She, unlike Johnson, would have followed the science on COVID as she did on, for example, climate change and AIDS.

One good example from her government was the introduction of seatbelt laws, from compulsory wearing of them by drivers & front seat passengers to later being mandated to fit them in rear seats and then also having to be compulsory worn as well not long after she resigned. 'cos of science & evidence, of course.

Abernathy wrote:Who on earth would have thought that all these years later, we'd be looking back (sort of) fondly at Thatcher and thinking she wasn't really (comparatively speaking) that bad ?

As is often said, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Credit where it's due - it was Samanfur who (IIRC) hit the nail on the head regarding Johnson. She's had his number* for a long time.

*Not phone number, obviously. She has standards.

Cheers, but if we're giving credit where it's due, DavidJay said it first. I just repeated it, and expanded it a bit.

Anyone with a brain would have led the concerted effort against Covid well.

It’s not surprising that the two best prepared countries who had populist leaders ended up being two of the worst to cope with it.

In fact the correlation between deaths and populist leaders is strong.

Though even with Obama or Biden I think the USA would struggle considering the way the country is.

Samanfur wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:45 pm Cheers, but if we're giving credit where it's due, DavidJay said it first. I just repeated it, and expanded it a bit.

Well I thought it was Phil Moorhouse!

Two leaders whose personality cults are based on toxic machismo.

I think he will face a leadership challenge if they lose on Thursday… Not sure who will play the Redwood role maybe Loathsome?

mattomac wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:52 pm I think he will face a leadership challenge if they lose on Thursday… Not sure who will play the Redwood role maybe Loathsome?

Don't think it works like that now, does it?

If Bodger loses the confidence vote, he is fucked and a leadership contest gets under way immediately. Any Tory MP with 8 friends can put theirselves forward for the ballot of the Tory parliamentary party to choose two names to put out to a final ballot of the swivel-eyed - that is the rank and file Conservative members - to decide who is the new leader/PM.


https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... p-contests

Abernathy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:48 pm If Bodger loses the confidence vote, he is fucked and a leadership contest gets under way immediately. Any Tory MP with 8 friends can put theirselves forward for the ballot of the Tory parliamentary party to choose two names to put out to a final ballot of the swivel-eyed - that is the rank and file Conservative members - to decide who is the new leader/PM.


https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... p-contests

Well, he's not lost anything if we're talking about tonight's votes so any talk of confidence motions is moot: besides which, I think he's still get the required 50%+1 of MPs to support him.

Unless I'm missing something?

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:07 pm

mattomac wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:52 pm I think he will face a leadership challenge if they lose on Thursday… Not sure who will play the Redwood role maybe Loathsome?

Don't think it works like that now, does it?

Nah, shame really

Boiler wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:14 pm

Abernathy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:48 pm If Bodger loses the confidence vote, he is fucked and a leadership contest gets under way immediately. Any Tory MP with 8 friends can put theirselves forward for the ballot of the Tory parliamentary party to choose two names to put out to a final ballot of the swivel-eyed - that is the rank and file Conservative members - to decide who is the new leader/PM.


https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... p-contests

Well, he's not lost anything if we're talking about tonight's votes so any talk of confidence motions is moot: besides which, I think he's still get the required 50%+1 of MPs to support him.

Unless I'm missing something?

You are missing something. I wasn’t talking about tonight’s votes on the government’s “plan B” measures, but the vote of confidence that will ensue if the 1922 committee gets the requisite number of letters following this week’s events.

While watching today's debate on Plan B it struck me that there are dozens of nasty thick Tory MPs who got into parliament on Johnson's coat tails. It will be interesting to see how many of them rally round him if sections of the party do trigger a leadership vote.

@Boiler It's the North Shropshire by-election on Thursday and the Lib Dems are odds-on favourites to win.

That will probably be the final nail in Johnson's political coffin.

He couldn't even get the bloke who just won in Old Bexley and Sidcup to vote for him.

Thank you, Socrates.

New Tory MP Miriam Cates claimed there had been “permanent change to the understanding of what liberty is”.

I’ve noticed Miriam Cates just recently - she seems to keep popping up. She’s yet another female Tory that is as dim as a 4 watt bulb.

They must have a fucking production line going somewhere.

Cyclist wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:51 pm @Boiler It's the North Shropshire by-election on Thursday and the Lib Dems are odds-on favourites to win.

That will probably be the final nail in Johnson's political coffin.

Ah, forgot about that. Thank you.

Abers, do you really think at least 54 Tory MPs would write to Brady to trigger a no confidence vote in Johnson?