Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Sounds like lots of frontbenchers voting for an immediate ceasefire. Naz Shah has resigned.

Starmer has a problem.

So has Jess Phillips. Tragic.

What a fucking day for this to happen. The bastards are in trouble then along comes a reprieve.

Largely self-inflicted as well. I think this is Starmer’s biggest mistake to date. It won’t change things in the long run, mercifully, but it could also easily have been avoided.

That said, Jess P. resigning to vote for a ceasefire is going to tie some of the corbynistas in knots, so small silver lining.

I think that, after a brief period of reflection, he will come up with a formula to suit all, and the useful ones will be back.

Somewhat disappointed that Jess’s primary motivation here seems to her self-interest, which is to say her hopes of retaining her seat - there are rather a lot of muslim Labour voters in her constituency.

This doesn't trump the Rwanda news.

Is it on record that they're going to be sacked? Obviously Naz Shah thought she would be, as she resigned.

But I wonder. When was the last time 10 frontbenchers were sacked?

The live-streamed, murderous spree of Hamas on 07.10 can and must never be played down for what it was.

Similarly, men and women of sound mind and good conscience cannot justify Israel's systematic and industrially violent response, which includes actions which directly lead to the death of people who were not even born at the point at which this latest round of senselessness begun.

That a ceasefire will "only allow Hamas to regroup" is a specious argument - I have a mighty fine collection of bridges to sell to anyone who believes that Hezbollah is not gearing up to respond, or who thinks that the US and Saudi are not salivating at the prospect of Iran getting involved.

Starmer is now a hostage to fortune. Big noise western allies baulking at Israel's civilian slaughter and calling for a halt must be but a short while distant. History and the near future will cast Jess Phillips to be in the right.

Many MPs, as well as Jess, would say that they're representing the views of their constituents, which is probably true. It's also true that they're worried that they'll piss them off and they'll lose votes.

I am very much on Starmer's side with this issue. Calling for a ceasefire is, I'm afraid, virtue signalling. We all want peace: but a ceasefire is simply undeliverable unless both sides in the conflict agree to it and will not abuse it. I don't think anyone believes that Hamas, at least, will abide by any undertaking, whatever they say.

Jess may well be “in the right”, but for the sake of a quite futile gesture in pursuance of her own self-interest. Call me a cynic if you like.

I think the expression "virtue signalling" is an expression to be avoided. Just because something probably won't be heeded doesn't mean you shouldn't call for it, at least as a starting position. There may be diplomatic advantages in it too.

The reason not to is that you think something else can deliver a better result. I'm afraid "leave it to the US, they'll quietly get Israel to restrain themselves" doesn't exactly look like it's worked.

With a bit of luck this will soon blow over. Starmer tells the rebels he can understand them voting according to their conscience, Labour is a broad church, quietly assures them that in a few months it'll all be forgotten.

I don't think it'll be a big deal tbh. From the outside it just looks like internal Labour politics again. Apart from Jess, I doubt anybody knows who these front benchers are.

Resigning on a point of principle didn't do Nye Bevan's career or reputation much harm.

56 Labour MPs voted for the SNP's amendment calling for a ceasefire.

What is now important is how the party leadership reacts.
The Tories (especially under Johnson) or Corbyn would expel them. But there is really no need. The sisters and brothers of the party have disagreed, strongly, but no more. This isn't a rebellion.

Time heals.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:04 pm Somewhat disappointed that Jess’s primary motivation here seems to her self-interest, which is to say her hopes of retaining her seat - there are rather a lot of muslim Labour voters in her constituency.

I’m on a way back from a gig, so will have to review the nay votes later on, but there does appear to be a notion abroad that those who rebelled have capitulated to the dusky hordes (Ian Austin, for one, deployed the euphemism, ‘pander to some constituents’, but I think we can all decline to pretend that we don’t know what that means).

Jess's resignation makes it clear that a substantial part of her reasoning for resigning in order to vote for the SNP amendment was to be on side with her constituents :

Dear Keir,

This week has been one of the toughest weeks in politics since I entered parliament. I have tried to do everything that I could to make it so that this was not the outcome, but it is with a heavy heart that I will be leaving my post in the shadow Home Office team.

On this occasion I must vote with my constituents, my head, and my heart which has felt as if it were breaking over the last four weeks with the horror of the situation in Israel and Palestine.

I can see no route where the current military action does anything but put at risk the hope of peace and security for anyone in the region now and in the future.

It is with great regret that I walk away from the role of domestic abuse and safeguarding shadow minister, however I don’t walk away from the work. Working with Yvette Cooper on the mission to halve incidents of domestic abuse within 10 years of a Labour government has been an honour. I am so proud that it is your Labour party and hopefully your government that has prioritised the chance to deliver a sea change in women’s safety not just tinkering with the legislation but actual systematic change across housing health, welfare, and the criminal justice system.

I will continue to do everything I can to deliver a Labour government and real change in the field of women’s safety. I will join the backbenches committed to being nothing but an asset to the delivery of a better future and Labour government that the people where I live and represent are desperate to see.

Yours sincerely,

Jess Phillips

I'm afraid I still think that in confusing voting for a call to call for an undeliverable ceasefire with voting for an actual ceasefire, she has made a big mistake.

It is a gesture, but by the same token, so is a ‘humanitarian pause’. Really, the only people Netanyahu seriously needs to pay heed are the US (currently still on board with collective punishment) and his far right coalition partners. Nothing the UK government or His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition have to say on the matter is liable to trouble him significantly.