Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Abernathy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 26, 2025 11:22 am It's Another Angry Wank, so it's automatically bollocks. He seems to be stepping up his output of utter cobblers. He's popping up on my Fleecebook feed every bloody day. I honestly don't get this "complicit in genocide" crap. How the hell can Labour - a governing political party in a state many removes - both geographically and politically - from Likud in Israel and Netanyahu's murderous coalition partners , be said to be complicit in anything that Israel engages in?

The reverse is the case. Far from being "complicit", Labour has done everything that it possibly could to condemn or try to influence the actions of the Israeli state. Short of sending in a military invasion force, what on earth could it do?

Keir Starmer's genocide complicity has made it impossible for anyone who believes in international law, human rights, or just basic human decency to vote for his version of the Labour Party.
The rest of the Labour Party wilfully going along with his genocide complicity proves the party is irredeemably rotten to the core.

Labour certainly hasn't done everything it might have, but it makes no difference to anything Israel do. Whereas on Ukraine, it has done everything it could, and it's made a difference. I really can't see how the former (re Palestine) is regarded as beyond the moral pale, and Ukraine as nothing. Worse, lots of the outer left actively want to abandon Ukraine.

Worse, lots of the outer left actively want to abandon Ukraine.

Would that have anything to do with the Division Galizien, by any chance?

Had to look that up.

More to do with Eastern Europeans having had the temerity to knock the Berlin Wall down and choose capitalism over a command economy with some Jeremy Corbyn equivalent in charge.

America bad. Russia is America's enemy. Ukraine is Russia's enemy. Ergo Ukraine bad.

It's also that they blame the conflict on NATO expansionism; if only NATO hadn't expanded east, then Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine. Of course, this ignores the reasons as to why these nations might want to join NATO.

Putin has never forgiven Ukraine for voting to leave the Russian Federation, he regards Ukraine as rightfully belonging to Russia.

Oboogie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 26, 2025 7:26 pm Putin has never forgiven Ukraine for voting to leave the Russian Federation, he regards Ukraine as rightfully belonging to Russia.

There certainly are people who say that Ukraine doesn't actually exist, historically.

Remember the original premise of the "Special Military Operation"? It was to "de-Nazify" Ukraine.

Mish Rahman showing all the charm and tact he was renowned for when he was on the NEC.

Apparently, Zarah Sultana has opined that she thinks her new party’s name should be “The Left Party”.

That'll take on .

Jez (or at least the Guardian headline) opines that the Government has "failed". This is the same sort of politics as "why are there still migrant hotels then?" Shows that this lot barely think in terms of outcomes at all. Just pass resolutions, job done, it all works, because leftwing members have decided so.

Quite a bit of progress has been made on waiting lists, childcare and real incomes, off the top of my head.

Those things don't count.

Remember when they shat the bed on the way out?

Labour has settled claims brought by 20 people, mainly former staffers, who featured in a leaked internal document about antisemitism in the party, with the costs estimated to be close to £2m.

The settlements include a payout to Labour’s former elections chief Patrick Heneghan, who was falsely accused in the dossier of having tried to sabotage Jeremy Corbyn’s chances of winning the 2017 general election.

It is understood the payouts will total just under £1m, but with Labour paying both sides’ legal fees the cost to the party will be near to £2m.

Sadly Labour wasted even more money trying to nail the individuals responsible.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 30, 2025 5:10 pm Apparently, Zarah Sultana has opined that she thinks her new party’s name should be “The Left Party”.

That'll take on .

An open goal for puns based on the double-meaning of "left".

The trouble with Corbyn and the Corbynistas (including Sultana) has always been the fundamental disconnect between the ostensibly popular policies they espouse (public ownership of utilities, wealth tax, redistribution of resources, etc) and the total absence of the political strategies, the guile, the nous, the craft, the awareness, the cojones needed to be able to win power, and the tactics and strategy still required once in power that are needed to begin slowly to turn around 14 solid years of Tory neglect, incompetence, and destructive avarice. They simply do not understand what needs to be done in order to achieve continuing electoral success. In their naivete, they believe that all they have to do is announce those policies (most of which someone like me even me agrees with, even if only in principle), then sit back and they’ll be swept triumphantly into power. 2017 and 2019 demonstrated the sheer folly of that approach, with Corbynist naivete hitting the buffers of cold hard reality with a sickening clunk.

The new Corbyn-Sultana party looks still to be afflicted by that base naivete.

The problem they faced in 2019 was that a load of popular, but not cheap, policies adds up to “yeah right! Free golden elephants too?”

Plus of course, the Tories’ killer three word punch -“Get Brexit Done”. Corbyn’s position on Brexit was utterly farcical.

2017 and 2019 demonstrated the sheer folly of that approach, with Corbynist naivete hitting the buffers of cold hard reality with a sickening clunk.

Don’t want to go there and have to listen to all the lame excuses again; the right wing in the party sabotaged Jeremy, he only needed a few thousand more votes to have won in 2017. Forde Report, chicken coup, Israel plotting, blah blah. Oh and Jeremy is the only Labour leader who’s had a hostile media. In reality he got a relatively soft ride until GE2017. Tories didn’t want him gone too soon but they needn’t have worried as the ignorant old twat refused to budge.

In response to Abers, I'm reminded again of my late friend the Corbynista's comment that "These people need educating."

You don't win elections by telling people that they're stupid. The right, from the Tories to the fash, know this.

The problem is so far its being referred to as the Corbyn Party.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 30, 2025 11:39 pm Plus of course, the Tories’ killer three word punch -“Get Brexit Done”. Corbyn’s position on Brexit was utterly farcical.

And I think even amongst fans there was some level of awareness that, even without the Brexit vagueness, it was unlikely that the popular policies of Corbyn’s Labour would ever come to pass because the person who would be in charge of pushing through and implementing those policies was one J. Corbyn. A man so disengaged he frequently sat back and didn’t join in at his own shadow cabinet meetings. Partly because he clearly likes to react rather than act, and partly so he didn’t have to make any actual decisions himself where there could be a consequence should he make the wrong call and be responsible for that call.