Mailwatch(ed) Forum

I can't even make that much sense of it.

I think what the last couple of days has shown is that if and when Putin finally falls the chances are that he will be replaced by somebody who is equally dangerous and nasty. It is very hard to see how true democracy will ever exist in a country like Russia.

It's kinda hard to extract a solution to Putin the dictator when he could probably manage to get elected anyway. Of course, there's a lot of prior brutalisation and deliberate wrecking of opposition movements involved, but like Erdogan, what do you do when the public like the bastards?

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:58 pm I can't even make that much sense of it.

Let's forget our hopes and return to known facts.
We don't know very much about this situation.

The story owes a lot to the hubris of "Russian experts" in the media.
They can't bear to say "We don't know everything about this situation".
So they speculate, dress it up as informed reporting, they project their hopes and add to the soap opera aspect.

Informed Western opinion has been making wrong calls about the infallibility of the Kremlin since Brezhnev’s death. Or did, explaining different scenarios is now wiser for Kremlinologist pundits. Which they’re doing pretty well.

Youngian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:14 am Informed Western opinion has been making wrong calls about the infallibility of the Kremlin since Brezhnev’s death. Or did, explaining different scenarios is now wiser for Kremlinologist pundits. Which they’re doing pretty well.

What annoys me is the missing "what we know" and "now we're speculating, based on what we know".
They would do better if they made those categories of news clear.

I’m confused by this Prigozhin “exile”; surely Belarus is simply a Kremlin satellite, he might just as well said “ take me to the gulag”

Watchman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:39 pm I’m confused by this Prigozhin “exile”; surely Belarus is simply a Kremlin satellite, he might just as well said “ take me to the gulag”

There was a well established system of internal exile under the Czars.
This was for Aristocrats who'd associated to closely with liberal reform movements and the like.
They may well have been enemies of the state, but they were titled nobility.

Not the banishment to the wilds of Siberia for them.
Instead a City near the Urals with a theatre, an opera house, and a smattering of other exiles to socialise with.

Families might even return on a change of Czar, or when the relative who caused the exile died.


I don't think Putin will be as liberal, if he manages to recoup some of his strength.

Putin’s read out accusations of Prigozihn trousering millions of Roubles from state contracts. So he can at least look forward to a fair trial from Russia’s independent judiciary.

I don't think it's even just Putin that Prigozhin needs to watch his back over. From what I can gather from this whole debacle is that he took a deal to save himself and just dumped his Wagner boys in a heartbeat. I know they've been pardoned but they looked up to him and expected him to lead them. Instead within 24 Hours he's packed up and left, with them possibly now being absorbed into the regular army which is absolutely not what they wanted. They must be seriously pissed off. The guy has got a very sore Putin eyeing him up as well as a load of let-down mercenaries who were led on a very risky failed coup and quite like killing people.

I assume the Russian state in one guise or another is the only revenue stream for Wagner Mercenaries Ltd. Piper calls the tune.

I'm not that much of a podcast person, outside a handful of favourites, but I thought this was an interesting take on the rise of Wagner and Prigozhin.* There's also a lot of stuff about how Putin manages the various factions around him and how vulnerable he might be to a coup (not very as things stand, seems to be the take).

*Starting at about 21:44, it also includes a brief history of his career as a hotdog salesman. Really.

The phrase "Fuck off, you little twat" comes to mind here.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... e-invasion

In an interview to promote the 560-page book last week, Sarkozy defended Vladimir Putin and called for Ukraine to accept the Russian occupation of Crimea and other disputed territory. He also insisted Ukraine should not be allowed to join Nato or the European Union and should remain “neutral” to appease Russia’s fears of being surrounded by “hostile neighbours”.

Posted without comment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66599774

Wagner mercenary group boss Yevgeny Prigozhin was on the list of passengers on an aircraft that crashed in the Tver Region, Russian authorities say

The Russian Emergencies Ministry has said that private aircraft “came down” near the village of Kuzhenkino - and all were killed

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

Makes a change from top floor windows

Taking out a plane full of people to get rid of one person you have no further use for seems a bit heavy-handed. But then, Russia never was known for subtlety.

Yug wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:52 pm Taking out a plane full of people to get rid of one person you have no further use for seems a bit heavy-handed. But then, Russia never was known for subtlety.

Putin-led Russia? Yeah, completely agree. The Soviets however, from what I've read, were that bit more clinical in dealing with political undesirables.

As it is, it looks like Prigozhin has experienced the god-tier result of "F*ck Around & Find Out!"

Update/Edit: There's suggestions now that Prigozhin might not have been a passenger that was on the plane that crashed on fire and was on a different one (that he also owned) that had turned back to Moscow once the other plane caught fire. Given how difficult it is to get accurate information out of Russia, especially from "official" sources, it's not exactly easy to know what is actually going on.

Update/Edit Part Deux: Unless someone's hacked into the "Grey Zone" Telegram Channel that is run by Wagner veterans, they're confirming Prigozhin is dead.

From the Social Media Platform formerly known as T**tter...

Yug wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:52 pm Taking out a plane full of people to get rid of one person you have no further use for seems a bit heavy-handed. But then, Russia never was known for subtlety.

Putin served cold dish revenge on Prigozhin, even Stevie Wonder saw that one coming.

Today's top tip : Before boarding a private flight in Russia, always check to see whether any of your fellow passengers recently led a failed coup against Vladimir Putin.