Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Not unexpected. I suppose it might shift a few but I'd be surprised if it did that many. Can't see that "I don't support independence, but I support the right to hold a referendum whenever the Yes side win a majority" is a common position. If you can't get comfortably over 50 with Bozo and Truss, I think the No vote may be fairly solid. But we'll see.

In other news, I've just discovered that it would be more than an indyref. Apparently Scotland joins France in the event of a Yes. This is likely a zombie stat anyway.

The heavyweight jurists have shown up. BTL Owen says that you can stick anything in a manifesto and if you win you have a mandate. Can't he see what a hostage to fortune that would be?

My own view- if there's sustained support for independence, up nearer 60% than 50%, then the UK shouldn't refuse a referendum. But we're not near there yet.

Telling someone that they are not "allowed" to do something which is really quite normal? Add to that a layer of the English stamping on the Scots and you have landed yersel' a massive problem.

No it isn't it's Sturgeon doing the old populist trick of my opponents are going against the will of the people.

kreuzberger wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:18 pm Telling someone that they are not "allowed" to do something which is really quite normal? Add to that a layer of the English stamping on the Scots and you have landed yersel' a massive problem.

Isn't the UK Government basically the same as the German Government's position on Bavarian nationalism?

OK, the German Government, if there was about 50% support in Bavaria, would not be as obnoxious as ours is being, and would likely be in constant conference on new powers. But I don't think most countries make secession easy, because it's an absolute nightmare, not least in the context of the EU. The National occasionally digs out MEPs who say "Scotland, come on home!" but leaders don't seem keen to go out on a limb for Scotland.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:28 pm

kreuzberger wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:18 pm Telling someone that they are not "allowed" to do something which is really quite normal? Add to that a layer of the English stamping on the Scots and you have landed yersel' a massive problem.

Isn't the UK Government basically the same as the German Government's position on Bavarian nationalism?

OK, the German Government, if there was about 50% support in Bavaria, would not be as obnoxious as ours is being, and would likely be in constant conference on new powers. But I don't think most countries make secession easy, because it's an absolute nightmare, not least in the context of the EU. The National occasionally digs out MEPs who say "Scotland, come on home!" but leaders don't seem keen to go out on a limb for Scotland.

I believe it is

I can see why the SNP have said the next General Election will be a de facto referendum (I mean, they can't hold a real one, and an unofficial one will be boycotted by Unionists) but I don't see how they can get through the election without campaigning on other issues. How would it work?

Unionist- Scottish <insert issue> is failing.
SNP- Say what you like, I'm only talking about independence.

That would be impossible, you're inevitably going to get drawn in to defending your own record. Once you've done that, it's not an election just on independence.

Having said that an SNP vote of 60% would be hard to spin as not to do with independence.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:54 pm I can see why the SNP have said the next General Election will be a de facto referendum (I mean, they can't hold a real one, and an unofficial one will be boycotted by Unionists) but I don't see how they can get through the election without campaigning on other issues. How would it work?

Unionist- Scottish <insert issue> is failing.
SNP- Say what you like, I'm only talking about independence.

That would be impossible, you're inevitably going to get drawn in to defending your own record. Once you've done that, it's not an election just on independence.

Having said that an SNP vote of 60% would be hard to spin as not to do with independence.

Politicians never do unbundle their primary issues.

The most glaring recent examples are Johnson and Sunak at PMQs.
They'll answer saying something like "Meanwhile the opposition voted against giving every child a lollipop".
When anybody paying attention remembers that the lollipop was paragraph nineteen of a bill that included fifteen different shit sandwiches as entrees.

Jim Murphy on Times Radio has asked John Nicolson MSP whether the SNP manifesto at the general election will consist solely of a single line relating to the desire to make Scotland an independent country, since logically, Sturgeon having declared that her party would treat the election as a de facto referendum on independence, they would surely have to do?

Nicolson answered that he didn’t know, as they hadn’t made up their minds yet.

Even if it did, I think they couldn't avoid getting into discussions about other things. Are they going to turn up for election debates and refuse to answer questions on them?

But if they get 60%, as I say, hard not to say that's got a lot to do with independence.

Iliked the line that Ian Blackford had been visited by the men in grey kilts...

I’m inclined to think there’s not all that much in Blackford standing down. He’s done 5 years, which is long enough if you probably want to be in Holyrood.

The SNP aren’t weakening.

I'm impressed with these tax rises in the SNP budget. Credit where it is due.

Independence will reawaken the Scottish wine industry

Scottish Wine Industry

"French wine, Spanish, Southern French, Dutch, Danish, Scottish"