Re: The Gender Identity Issue.
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2024 10:36 pm
Rowling sets out her views here
Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 8:19 pmHow concerned they are about the issue is largely unimportant, this is an opportunity to engage in a pile on targeting a Red Tory non-believer.Oboogie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 6:30 pmI don't think the overlap between Jez ultras and trans ultras, for want of a better description, is that big really. The Jez issues are mostly foreign policy and anti-capitalism. They're much more bothered about Starmer or Paul Mason. I don't think trans rights and JK Rowling, especially now, are of much concern to them.
It's not about Jez's stance (or lack thereof), some of his fan club however are eager for an opportunity to pile on people they perceive as an enemy.
No, women do not get a free pass - that's an absurd suggestion. However, I think they have rights and that those should be respected.
Why did you mention womanhood in the context of Rowling? I don't understand. What right isn't being respected?
Rowling supported - and encouraged her followers to financially suppport - Maya Forstater, a woman who's contract was not renewed because of her stance on trans and non-binary people. While a lot of articles give some detail and imply Forstater was simply not comfortable with trans women in women's spaces, the full reality of what she said and went on to say is quite different:Meant to be post a resposne to this the other day but forgot.
A woman who lost her job after saying that people cannot change their biological sex has won an appeal against an employment tribunal.
Maya Forstater, 47, did not have her contract renewed after posting tweets on gender recognition.
She lost her original case at a tribunal in 2019, but a High Court judge ruled her "gender-critical" beliefs fell under the Equalities Act.
The appeal said the tribunal had erred in law and another should take place.
Ms Forstater, from St Albans in Hertfordshire, did not have her contract renewed at the think tank Center for Global Development (CGD) in March 2019, after posting a series of tweets questioning government plans - which were later scrapped - to let people declare their own gender.
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:33 am I'd point out that if trans activists had been less arrogant and less convinced that they were on the right side of history then maybe things might be different. I'll give you an example when he was shown evidence of how Karen White a male born sex offender who was put into a woman's prison and then proceeded to commit sexual assaults on the inmates his response was big deal they were just dangerous lesbians and it was no big deal anyway.Second, the Maya Forstater info - that’s not a rebuttal of what I posted. I posted about things she had gone on to say AFTER the things she had said leading to her initial dismissal, making her feelings very clear. I was not speaking as to the validity or not of the case. Even though she said these things publicly, Rowling still supported her.
Oboogie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 12:29 amBilly Bragg is getting pelters for being on the other side.Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 8:19 pmHow concerned they are about the issue is largely unimportant, this is an opportunity to engage in a pile on targeting a Red Tory non-believer.Oboogie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 6:30 pmI don't think the overlap between Jez ultras and trans ultras, for want of a better description, is that big really. The Jez issues are mostly foreign policy and anti-capitalism. They're much more bothered about Starmer or Paul Mason. I don't think trans rights and JK Rowling, especially now, are of much concern to them.
It's not about Jez's stance (or lack thereof), some of his fan club however are eager for an opportunity to pile on people they perceive as an enemy.
No, women do not get a free pass - that's an absurd suggestion. However, I think they have rights and that those should be respected.
Why did you mention womanhood in the context of Rowling? I don't understand. What right isn't being respected?
Twitter pile-ons onto women are always the most virulent, to misogynists a woman voicing an opinion must always be 'put in her place' and be made to comply.
Crabcakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 7:24 am Few things. First off, who is ‘he’ here? Who are we talking about?The He is referring to Lord Kobel.
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:33 am I'd point out that if trans activists had been less arrogant and less convinced that they were on the right side of history then maybe things might be different. I'll give you an example when he was shown evidence of how Karen White a male born sex offender who was put into a woman's prison and then proceeded to commit sexual assaults on the inmates his response was big deal they were just dangerous lesbians and it was no big deal anyway.Second, the Maya Forstater info - that’s not a rebuttal of what I posted. I posted about things she had gone on to say AFTER the things she had said leading to her initial dismissal, making her feelings very clear. I was not speaking as to the validity or not of the case. Even though she said these things publicly, Rowling still supported her.
And finally, I agree the Scottish law is badly phrased and not fit for purpose. In fact, I don’t think I’ve said anything about it in this thread at all? My points have always been that Rowling has repeatedly demonstrated a bias against specifically trans women, has supported people who are openly and quite offensively transphobic, and she has been generally provocative and needlessly unpleasant in her campaign against the law. Her behaviour being unreasonable and a law also being flawed are not mutually exclusive.
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:33 am I'd point out that if trans activists had been less arrogant and less convinced that they were on the right side of history then maybe things might be different. I'll give you an example when he was shown evidence of how Karen White a male born sex offender who was put into a woman's prison and then proceeded to commit sexual assaults on the inmates his response was big deal they were just dangerous lesbians and it was no big deal anyway.I didn't think that citing a criminal individual exploiting gaps in the system open to their demographic to their nefarious advantage as an example of why said demographic should not receive legal protections is particularly smart or helpful, though.
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 4:35 pm No you start with the principle that you don't have with the principle you don't put male born rapists in with female inmates.Eh ?
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:33 am I'd point out that if trans activists had been less arrogant and less convinced that they were on the right side of history then maybe things might be different.And yet…no.
Oboogie wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 4:52 pmHe can be a little grating at times, but if memory serves the far right accusation was a specific referenced to Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull/Posie Parker and her association with assorted far right types, not to mention her assertion that the loss of Roe v Wade was a price worth paying for the defeat of the evil trans. All told, it’s probably not worth puffing flour your chest on defence of that.davidjay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 3:37 pmYes, he jumped the shark a few years ago. He seems to be peddling the notion that Neo-Nazis are crusaders for women's rights and therefore women should pipe down. Barking mad, you might say.
Billy Bragg is getting pelters for being on the other side.