Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Killer Whale wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:53 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:40 pm Even without settlements, I think the Palestinian territories were separated by some distance. I see that this was accepted in the Oslo Accords, but it's a tough sell for anybody at the best of times.

It's not going to happen, we're way too far down the road, but I wonder how many takers you'd get for the 1947 UN borders if you offered them today. My bet is that the Arab world, probably including the Palestinians, would bite your hand off.

Currently? On the Israeli side? None whatsoever. Whatever arguments have gone before I don’t think it can be overstated that the present vision of Zionism hews rather closer to Yigal Amir than the man he shot.

Philip Marlow wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 4:59 pm Currently? On the Israeli side? None whatsoever.

That's why I didn't even bother to mention it.

So, Iran bombed Pakistan last night. It'll be interesting to see how that is spun to be a legitimate defence of the Palestinians against Israeli aggression.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67999465

Killer Whale wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:18 pm

Philip Marlow wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 4:59 pm Currently? On the Israeli side? None whatsoever.

That's why I didn't even bother to mention it.

Aye, sorry. Wasn’t meaning to get at you.

Back when Biden was still Vice President he went on a state visit to Israel. The Interior Ministry then proceeded to announce a new programme of Jews-only house building in East Jerusalem. In fact a quick shufty informs me that this happened in 2010. He’s been a long time either failing to learn, or pretending not have learned the obvious lesson.

Occasional objections to particularly egregious statements or actions by Netanyahu’s racist cabinet ministers might be raised, but no one was going to back up words with consequential action, least of all the Biden administration. This White House went a long way to avoid confrontation with Israel even before its largely unconditional support for the present war in Gaza, which has claimed more than 25,000 lives, most of them children and women, according to the health ministry there.

As Stephanie Kirchgaessner revealed in the Guardian last week, the US state department has a unit working to undermine American human rights laws by, in effect, covering up suspected crimes against humanity in the occupied territories in order to protect weapons shipments to Israel. The White House wouldn’t even stand up for a US citizen, the journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, when she was shot in 2022 in what looked very much like a cold-blooded killing by the Israeli army. And the US, as ever, has continued to wield its veto at the UN security council in support of Israel.

Netanyahu has repaid all of this by humiliating Biden.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -palestine

Should have pointed this out earlier but earlier this week Israel actually offered a 2 month truce with an offer to exchange hostages for "political prisoners" and Hamas rejected it. Naturally the ceasefire now crowd had nothing to say about this.

Nice one lads

https://www.progressivebritain.org/how- ... -critique/

If you want a lasting peace in the middle east then pissing off and alienating people like this isn't the way to do it.

Being an Israeli lefty means walking an incredibly lonely road. It means to be a Zionist (believing that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish-majority state), but also to believe in a peace with the Palestinians through the two-state solution. We are the ultimate outcasts; Israeli nationalists marginalise us for our opinions, while various people outside of Israel equally sideline us for being Israelis.

Despite our usual isolation however, nothing prepared us for what we have been experiencing since the 7 October terrorist attack. On that day, an unprovoked Hamas indiscriminately murdered 1,400 innocent Israelis, employed horrendous methods like rape and mutilation, and abducted an additional 230 civilians to Gaza. Many of the victims, by the way, were members of the Kibbutzim; socialist, peace-loving Israelis who did their fair share for Palestinian rights. But instead of reaffirming peace and denouncing the atrocities, many members of the Western left chose to express support for these crimes, and chant genocidal calls against Israel, Israelis, and sometimes Jews in general.

Antisemitic incidents are skyrocketing all over the West. Being a student in London myself, I can testify that simple actions, like speaking Hebrew or wearing Jewish signifiers, have become dangerous acts. I have a friend who is being ostracized by his peers; his only crime is wearing a Kippah. Another friend has her professor obsessively send her pro-Palestinian articles ever since he learned she was Jewish. And these daily micro-aggressions are not even the worst of it; almost every time I go to campus there is some sticker, sign, or protest that calls for the destruction of my country and for harm against me and my loved ones. I consequently avoid campus whenever I can.

The most maddening part about it is that many of the culprits are not alt-right members or neo-Nazis, the usual antisemitism suspects, but rather the left – the so-called humanitarians, our former friends. This has thrown me, and many other Israeli lefties, into a deep identity crisis. We do not know anymore where our political home is, and what part of the world is left for us to feel safe in.

This is some proper fucking British exceptionalism shit, isn't it? The leader of the UK opposition, folks, is responsible for this horror. Not Hamas, not Netanyahu, not even Biden or Sunak. No. Starmer did it.

This just goes to show that for a lot of people Israel, Palestine is used to settle scores with their enemies and attack them for not 100% on their side.

I don't get why there is a vote in the British Parliament on a ceasefire.

"Hey lads- some blokes in suits who live 4,000 miles away have said we should stop fighting. Put your weapons down."

"Prince William has too. We'll stop then."

Nakedly playing politics with an horrific situation. The SNP have proposed what is basically an Israeli surrender motion that Labour can't possibly support, so Labour have proposed an amendment calling for a meaningful ceasefire from both sides. Cynically, the Government have now put in their own amendment (which will, following tradition, supersede the Labour amendment) in a pincer movement to make Labour MPs choose between two unacceptable extremes or abstain like they don't care.
All of this for absolutely no effect on the crisis on the ground either way. Performative bollocks.

"Hello. I'm Margaret. I am mental."



(Sorry for double-posting)

Well Margaret's certainly put forward a persuasive argument. Who the fuck is she?

Has so much energy, words and time been spent on something of so little importance.

This will be rolled into a month of crisis for Starmer when they throw Rochdale in and yet in that time the only things of actual importance (this amendment motion is so little of importance) will have been two by elections and the entering of a recession.

And the polls will still remain relatively stable.

Oh it seems the Speaker has allowed the Labour amendment as well, furious reaction from the SNP and Conservatives.

Oh so had not a jot to do with innocent people then? Absolutely pathetic by all concerned.

Now talking about removing Hoyle.

How to make something you proclaim is about innocent Palestinians not look about innocent Palestinians

Frankly, it's about time Hoyle grew a pair of bollocks. Bercow would have done this without batting an eyelid and fuck the Tories and the SNP.

AOB wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:09 am I don't get why there is a vote in the British Parliament on a ceasefire.

I sincerely doubt that Putin paces the corridors of the Kremlin at night, fretting over what the honourable member for Wherethefuck-on-the-Wold thinks of his Ukraine policy either, but it hasn’t stopped an assortment of UK pols carrying on as if he might. Ultimately, what parliament thinks of Israel matters very little to its government unless there’s the prospect of sanctions (not happening) or a ban on arms sales (definitely not happening.)

"Prince William has too. We'll stop then.

In a way it’s quite nice to see various, yapping arseholes (noted headbanger David Collier has taken great offence at Will’s suggestion that ‘too many people have died’) having a go at the other brother for a change.

There has been a bit of discussion, mostly by enlightened commentators such as James O' Brien, about the damage that Netanyahu is doing to Israel's international reputation by his actions in pursuing Hamas to the brutal degree that he is engaged in. He has a point, but I believe that the unfortunate truth is that like Putin, Netanyahu would seem not give a flying fuck about Israel's reputation.

Netanyahu's sole motivation is keeping himself out of prison.