Mailwatch(ed) Forum

davidjay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:01 pm Benn had something Corbyn could never hope to have - whether you'd call it charm, or charisma, or gravitas I don't know, but he had the ability to gain the respect of people who didn't agree with him. Corbyn, on the other hand, has the reverse effect. I could easily see myself agreeing with his ideas but still voting against him.

It was because he respected them, and was also smart enough to know you have to play the game sometimes. You can see with Corbyn he can’t bear to be challenged, can’t stand to be asked to explain himself, and gets tetchy as soon as someone questions his well-rehearsed ‘man of peace’ routine.

That's the thing - playing the game. You might fundamentally disagree with the rules but you are never going to get elected by not sticking by them. Keep your fingers crossed while singing God Save the King, mouth the words if you like but don't keep quiet while the band are playing.

Jez has a new whistle courtesy of Sammy Wilson’s tailor. Or the other way around.

Just the thing for mid-November.

Hale and Pace are looking rough.

Benn was around for quite a while before he went all Corbyn.

Lovely bit in the new James O'Brien book, and excerpt from Benn's diaries on the occasion of Denis Healey's funeral. I paraphrase a bit, but it goes roughly "Such a day, all the great and good, the movers and shakers of the British left gathered together. Corbyn couldn't make it."

It was Ralph Miliband:

Benn’s diaries, incidentally, are remarkable and frequently delightful. Of Ralph Miliband’s funeral at Golders Green Crematorium in 1994, he records: ‘Anyone on the real left of any significance was there. Jeremy Corbyn couldn’t make it.’

Benn's diaries are excellent, and he was a wonderful public speaker on stuff he knew about- I saw him talk at City University about media, and he could have slotted right in as an academic (a proper one, not the "visiting" kind) But he made a big mistake by challenging Kinnock- a bunch of the more ambitious members of the Campaign Group left as a result. Corbyn ran this pointless campaign.

He's back. . With a nice "of course" suggesting the point that he missed for 6 weeks is obvious. That was kind of our point, Jez.

Corbyn wrote that he “deplore[d] the targeting of all civilians”, including Hamas’s killing of about 1,200 people in Israel on 7 October.

The MP for Islington North added: “If we understand terrorism to describe the indiscriminate killing of civilians, in breach of international law, then of course Hamas is a terrorist group.

“The targeting of hospitals, refugee camps and so-called safe zones by the Israeli army are acts of terror too; and the killing of more than 11,000 people, half of whom are children, cannot possibly be understood as acts of self-defence.

“We should not entertain questions from those who have no interest in applying this basic consistency.”

I'm not sure the question he wouldn't answer was a "distraction". If so, it was about as subtle as "standing behind him holding a sign saying "Mr Poopy Trousers". Seemed like a fairly obvious starting point for anybody who might make a serious case for a ceasefire. You didn't have to be one of the "most bloodthirsty voices" to think it was a question worth answering properly.

“We have a responsibility to stop bloodthirsty voices from dictating the terms of debate, and to push back against cynical attempts to distract us from our urgent goal: bringing about an immediate ceasefire.”

For no particular reason, I've just been reading about PFI.

Now, to his credit, Jez did always oppose them. But at the time of the 2017 election, he campaigned on taking them all back into public ownership.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41403844

Guess what? He couldn't have.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resour ... nse-of-pfi

Why doesn’t the NHS save some money and just pay off these private groups rather than carry on paying every year?
That is an option in some cases. Tees, Esk and Wear Valley NHS Trust paid off its PFI scheme in 2011 and saved itself around £1.4 million a year in repayments. And in 2011, Northumbria Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust paid off its PFI deal by borrowing money from a local authority, thereby saving around £67 million over 20 years in repayments.

But in both those cases there were some special circumstances – not least the existence of an exit clause in the contract which allowed negotiations over settling the contract earlier than planned. Not all PFI contracts have such a clause.

Plus, as they say, some of these are good value, particularly the later ones. It wouldn't make much sense to borrow all that money now to pay them off.

Lucky Theresa May fucked up so spectacularly really.

Reading a Corbynista brain box’s analysis of Milei’s victory in Argentina, its a backlash against neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism got inflation to 140%, did it? How did little Uruguay next door (inflation 4.3%) stand firm against this neoliberal tide?

To be honest, if a marching band walked through playing "Neoliberalism is here to stay", some Jezzite would say that it's evidence that the tide is turning.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:12 pm Neoliberalism got inflation to 140%, did it? How did little Uruguay next door (inflation 4.3%) stand firm against this neoliberal tide?

He had an answer to all this, pity it makes no sense.

So in short as long Libs and Centrists are owned that's fine.

Colin Crouch is a more thoughtful Matt Goodwin who unexpectedly found a pamphlet he wrote about globalisation and the decline of national democracy 20 years ago gained a lot of traction. He may wish to revise some of his thoughts next year as the UK embarks on a post populist election.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:15 am So in short as long Libs and Centrists are owned that's fine.

Horseshoe theory in action.

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:07 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:12 pm Neoliberalism got inflation to 140%, did it? How did little Uruguay next door (inflation 4.3%) stand firm against this neoliberal tide?

He had an answer to all this, pity it makes no sense.

Can you press him on 140% inflation a bit harder? I’m intrigued. I’m on there myself but I get sucked in if I start posting.

He blocked me from replying again.

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:30 pm Reading a Corbynista brain box’s analysis of Milei’s victory in Argentina, its a backlash against neoliberalism.

In the same way that we always elect right-wing governments because Labour aren't left enough.

Please do have a read of Jim’s excellent article, here :

https://shirazsocialism.wordpress.com/ ... IiUILR4Tl8

Peace, Justice … and Stalinism