[Tubby Isaacs]

Starmer always has state craft but his 'on the other hand this' moribund Atlanticism lacks clarity, direction or inspiration. Better hope Zack doesn't put a tie on and fancy himself as Carney as well as an English Mamdani.

The EU wouldn't fancy Zack, with his absurd position on Defence and the European economy. You think they want to listen to him tell them they should drop the nukes and tell the markets to fuck off? They'll stick with Starmer, who is with them on most stuff.

[davidjay]

I usually set quite some store by the wisdom of Mr. Phil Moorhouse. I’m a big fan, of, and even an advocate for Keir Starmer and the argument for sticking with him, but something he has just said has struck something of a chord with me. It’s this : Stuff like the winter fuel allowance, PIP, inheritance taxes on farms, the Mandelson scandal, and such like are a bit more serious than just honest mistakes that can be recovered from, but very specifically so in the leader’s case.

Phil thinks that Starmer has, importantly, lost the trust of voters, and that is something that is effectively irrecoverable. If and when things do start to get tangibly better, it will be seen as being in spite of Keir Starmer, not because of him.

As such, it may be time for the party to think aboutreplacing Starmer as leader and PM. I’m still not entirely convinced that Phil is right about this, but I’m beginning to wonder whether he is.

Who would you replace him with? Specifically: 1. who do you think would attract fewer lies from the right-wing press and our various opponents. 2. who do you think would be more popular with the electorate?

1) Nobody.
2) See 1).

[Abernathy]

@Oboogie : I don’t have answers to both your questions, which is mostly why I said that I was only slightly in agreement with Mr. Moorhouse.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bridget Philipson seems to have done well with special needs. She might be one to watch. I wish she were a bit better on universities, mind.

But I suppose we'll be hearing all about how it's the worst thing ever before too long, so that will probably rule her out.

[Andy McDandy]

Women will all be labelled harridans, slags or dopey birds. Men will be Red Ed the net zero freak who can't eat a bacon sandwich, David "something not quite right, can't quite put my finger on it" Lammy, or Who?

[Tubby Isaacs]

From the other angle, anybody who doesn't immediately do a Liz Truss will be "an apologist for neoliberalism" and all the rest of it. And anyone who doesn't joint the EU by tmrw teatime will be a "hard Brexiter". And they'll be "complicit in genocide" too.

[Oboogie]

@Oboogie : I don’t have answers to both your questions, which is mostly why I said that I was only slightly in agreement with Mr. Moorhouse.

Fair enough.
Burnham, Rayner and Streeting are the names most commonly touted but Burnham is not currently available, Rayner still has HMRC hanging over her (and it would be naïve to assume that will go away once she's - presumably - cleared) and Streeting is now tainted by association with Mandelson.
Phil Moorhouse believes Starmer has offered Burnham a deal by which he could stand for Parliament next year, not sure of Phil's source for that, but if correct might be our best hope.

[mattomac]

Still have to win a by election.

It seems tough.

[Tubby Isaacs]

And it’s a long time till next year for Starmer to hold on. Perhaps this is his way of shutting dissenters up by making them think they get their man if they shut up for a bit longer.

[The Weeping Angel]

Daniel was more than happy to complain about the Greens campaign now that Starmer does it, he's tone deaf.

Here is the letter.

Dear Colleagues,

The result in Gorton and Denton is deeply disappointing.

Instead of a Labour MP who can be a local champion delivering for Gorton and Denton alongside a Labour Government and a Labour mayor, the people of Gorton and Denton now have a representative who is more interested in dividing people than uniting them. We have to learn lessons from that, and we will.

I know this is a tough result for our movement but I still want to thank you for everything you did to support our brilliant candidate Angeliki Stogia. She did a fantastic job and Gorton and Denton deserved to have her as their MP.

We’ve seen the true colours of Zack Polanski’s Greens in this campaign. The Greens were able to capitalise on an endorsement from George Galloway to win over enough voters to push them over the line. Their willingness to welcome Galloway's divisive, sectarian politics is a sign that the Greens are not the harmless environmentalists they pretend to be, and their position on legalising all drugs shows how unstable this electoral coalition is. It cannot survive a general election campaign.

It hurts, but this is the kind of result that we have often seen parties of government face. In by-elections people can make their voice heard without risking a change of government. I get it: people are rightly impatient to see the change they voted for.

It’s my job to make sure that happens. And I’m working day in, day out to see it through.

Over the coming months, people will feel the benefit of the long-term decisions this government is taking. Look at the good economic news we’ve had in the past week: inflation and borrowing coming down, retail sales and business confidence rising, energy bills falling. And look at the policies that are going to make a difference in people’s lives in the coming months: the landmark Employment Rights Act, money off energy bills, the cruel two-child limit scrapped, more free breakfast clubs opening, Pride in Place funding coming through, NHS waiting lists continuing to fall. It will show what we’ve been saying from the outset of this year: the country is turning a corner. These are all Labour policies, putting Labour values into action - policies no other party would or could deliver.

The Greens may have won here, but they simply do not have the resources, the activist base or the local knowledge to replicate this victory across the country. We’ve seen that before. We’ve seen it with the Lib Dems, who have often won mid-term by-elections against both the Conservatives and Labour, but never been able to come close to winning nationally. We’ve seen it with George Galloway, who won two mid-term by elections but held neither of those seats in a general election.

We will continue to warn of the risk the Greens pose: the risk of extreme policies like legalising all drugs and pulling out of NATO that most voters strongly reject, and the risk of splitting the progressive vote so that Reform come through the middle.

The next election is too important to let that happen. It’s a fight we can win, and we’re going to win it.

Best,
Keir

[Oboogie]

And it’s a long time till next year for Starmer to hold on. Perhaps this is his way of shutting dissenters up by making them think they get their man if they shut up for a bit longer.

It'd be madness to swap leaders this far out from a general election, throw away any new leader bounce and gift our opponents longer to tear them apart.
Plus, there is no available leader-in-waiting.

[Bones McCoy]

Whoever succeeds Kier Starmer will inherit every element of the malevolent press pile on that began around Beergate.

I used to regard this as a reason to stick with Starmer.
But recent business involving Mandelson has rendered his position a lot less defensible.

The Irony is that the weasels of our "free and fair press" constantly wish for fewer career politicians and wish for a mythical outsider.
When an outsider like Kier Starmer arrives, they pile on to every tiny slip of protocol (that only a career politician would know).

When the press demand an outsider, they mean one of two things:
* Nigel Farage or one of his goons - who've actually spent their post school lives balls deep in politics.
* A relatively naive chump that they can continually monster for not knowing the right Latin phrase, calling the speaker "you", or conducting business like any sane human might.

[Youngian]

And it’s a long time till next year for Starmer to hold on. Perhaps this is his way of shutting dissenters up by making them think they get their man if they shut up for a bit longer.

It'd be madness to swap leaders this far out from a general election, throw away any new leader bounce and gift our opponents longer to tear them apart.
Plus, there is no available leader-in-waiting.

If Starmer and his ministers calmly get on with the job of governing in the next two years in an uneventful manner, what's his many enemies, opponents and rivals going to do about it?
But don't say "I'm just getting on with the job," you'll sound like Theresa May.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Business experience is a real thing, but it has to be the right sort of business experience- ie Brexit supporting small state. If it’s the wrong sort, it rapidly becomes “elite”. And professional politicians like Daniel Hannan are to listened to instead.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think Sir Keir may have gone a bit farther there than he should have done. And though I think it’s right to frame Polanski as a potential disaster, he has to be very careful at making it look like he and Farage are the same. Polanski is getting beaten up by the markets and having sanity forced upon him. Farage is Trump without the dollar. These two aren’t the same.

[mattomac]

Laura K has done an article saying they are more alike than you think. Whether it allows her to continue soft arming them it will help Labour.

[The Weeping Angel]