[Abernathy]

Kind of odd to see various Labour front benchers tying themselves in knots to avoid calling Reform/Farage a racist directly, instead taking pains to stress only that they think that Reform’s key policy announcement of scrapping ILR and deporting people who’d secured ILR is racist (which it is).

As O’Brien said today, how can it be that to be called racist is far worse than actually being racist.

[Youngian]

Farage or the Tories need to woo Labour voters over to win elections. They don't appear to be squeamish about accusing Labour of being Stalin if they so much as mention nationalisation for example. Why aren't they bothered about potentially insulting Labour voters?
It might be that Reform voters are sensitive snowflakes with a heightened sense of bogus victim hood if you use hurty words.

[Boiler]

Kind of odd to see various Labour front benchers tying themselves in knots to avoid calling Reform/Farage a racist directly, instead taking pains to stress only that they think that Reform’s key policy announcement of scrapping ILR and deporting people who’d secured ILR is racist (which it is).

As O’Brien said today, how can it be that to be called racist is far worse than actually being racist.

Well, it worked so well for Gordon Brown, didn't it...

You don't win elections by calling your voters stupid, or calling them racists. I'd have thought that was obvious.

Also, some might take sufficient offence to launch a defamation action - they've not got the shield of parliamentary privilege at a conference.

[RedSparrows]

I think they can make a reasonable case for the difference between Reform 'fuck off you're foreign' policies and Labour 'you're foreign so you need to be an extra better person'. Both are fundamentally rooted in an arbitrary and unjust perception of the world, but that's far too large and abstract a battle. Thus calling out Reform for having racist policies, and stressing that 'concern about immigration isn't racist' is a possible wedge. It's risky, but on the other hand perhaps they've decided they'll never appeal to the actual racists anyway (or, better, don't want to, but in my cynical moments I wonder...).

They've gone for this with the flags. Luv flags, 'ate raycism m8. That's not a crazy deal, especially in front of Reform's 'you have ILR and thus are clearly jumping through all the hoops, but you can fuck off all the same' as if that's the same as the boats in the channel and 'not being allowed to fly the flag'. Performative, symbolic cruelty that I'm not sure many people have time for, actually. I suspect most people are 'tired' and 'fedup' and 'want a fair deal' and all the other cliches of public life. That's not the same as spitting on your dark-skinned and kind next door neighbour.

[Abernathy]

Not sure whose brilliant idea it was to give every cabinet member a wee plastic flag to wave around while applauding the leader’s speech, but it doesn’t come across that well on the tellybox.

[Abernathy]

There is a City Council by-election in my ward on Thursday - one of our Labour councillors sadly died.

I’ve not been out on the knocker much myself, but I’ve put in some telephone banking and the word that is coming back from volunteers on the doorstep is mostly that people really do not like Keir Starmer. I’m not sure precisely why this is - mistakes like the WFA, Mandelson, and so on, I guess, but I think there is just a general feeling that he is a bit of a crap leader.

It’s not quite as bad as when we went knocking doors just after Corbyn was elected leader, when the reaction “Vote Labour ? Not with HIM as your leader ! “ was all too common, but it's pretty bad. I really can’t think how we are going to turn this around.

If we get our vote out on Thursday we should hold the council seat, but there is a Reform candidate, a Lib Dem, and a Trot “Independent” in the mix (The Tories are nowhere), so it’s a bit hard to predict. The good news is we have about 100 volunteers signed up for polling day.

The all-council elections in May, however. are another matter. I think that Labour losing control of Birmingham then is more or less nailed on.

We live in interesting times .

[Youngian]

Under no illusions an electorate that chose a lightweight ponce like Cameron over Gordon Brown won't see Starmer's strengths. Even if Peter Perfect from casting central was available to be leader, they'd still have to be doing the hard yards on the economy. Rather Keir gets on with the job and if he remains unpopular, pass the baton on nearer to the next election. Most voters have the political memory of a goldfish so Keir will be forgotten in a fortnight. Unless he does something really fucking stupid like Bozo or Truss.

[The Weeping Angel]

There is a City Council by-election in my ward on Thursday - one of our Labour councillors sadly died.

I’ve not been out on the knocker much myself, but I’ve put in some telephone banking and the word that is coming back from volunteers on the doorstep is mostly that people really do not like Keir Starmer. I’m not sure precisely why this is - mistakes like the WFA, Mandelson, and so on, I guess, but I think there is just a general feeling that he is a bit of a crap leader.

It’s not quite as bad as when we went knocking doors just after Corbyn was elected leader, when the reaction “Vote Labour ? Not with HIM as your leader ! “ was all too common, but it's pretty bad. I really can’t think how we are going to turn this around.

If we get our vote out on Thursday we should hold the council seat, but there is a Reform candidate, a Lib Dem, and a Trot “Independent” in the mix (The Tories are nowhere), so it’s a bit hard to predict. The good news is we have about 100 volunteers signed up for polling day.

The all-council elections in May, however. are another matter. I think that Labour losing control of Birmingham then is more or less nailed on.

We live in interesting times .

He's become a human pinaita he's to blame for cost of living, he's to blame for Reform, he's too left-wing, he's too right-wing he's to blame for small boats, he's to blame for racists, he lets McSweeney run everything, he's useless, he can't get anything right, in short he's history's greatest monster.

[Crabcakes]

Starmer has simultaneously been the victim of circumstances in the sense of the decades of shite, and that sorting out taking too long for some people (contrast with Blair, who when coming to power had to equally sort out decades of Tory nonsense but had a booming economy, no Brexit, no immediate issues with the Kremlin and no orange shitgibbon throwing out tariffs), while also doing well on some issues and generally initially, while also being genuinely disappointing/poorly advised on some issues (such as chasing reform voters), plus being not the most charismatic person and so unable to sell things as well as another leader might.

He was the right guy to contrast with the sleaze/bullshit of Johnson and Sunak. In different circumstances he would probably be a perfectly fine guy to take things forward. I am reluctantly persuadable that on current form and in the current state of the world he may not be the right guy to take the fight to Farage and his populists while also seeing off the resurgent Greens who - whatever their faults - do have a leader with a certain level of charisma.

[Youngian]

Maybe Keir doesn't plan to stick around and is like a Mario in Italy; a competent technocrat who doesn't care about being popular and is stuck up to do the hard yards while the others wait in the wings for sunnier days.
Power does funny things to people but I hope he's Bill Hayden and not Jeremy Corbyn when its time to move aside.

[davidjay]

There is a City Council by-election in my ward on Thursday - one of our Labour councillors sadly died.

I’ve not been out on the knocker much myself, but I’ve put in some telephone banking and the word that is coming back from volunteers on the doorstep is mostly that people really do not like Keir Starmer. I’m not sure precisely why this is - mistakes like the WFA, Mandelson, and so on, I guess, but I think there is just a general feeling that he is a bit of a crap leader.

It’s not quite as bad as when we went knocking doors just after Corbyn was elected leader, when the reaction “Vote Labour ? Not with HIM as your leader ! “ was all too common, but it's pretty bad. I really can’t think how we are going to turn this around.

If we get our vote out on Thursday we should hold the council seat, but there is a Reform candidate, a Lib Dem, and a Trot “Independent” in the mix (The Tories are nowhere), so it’s a bit hard to predict. The good news is we have about 100 volunteers signed up for polling day.

The all-council elections in May, however. are another matter. I think that Labour losing control of Birmingham then is more or less nailed on.

We live in interesting times .

Unlike Corbyn, whose unpopularity was basically along being pro-terrorist and Marxist, if you ask the man on the number 50 why e doesn't like Starmer, I suspect you'd struggle to get a definitive answer. I believe that a lot of it is because it doesn't matter who it was, the Labour leader in 2024 was going to get abused in the media because the press billionaires know that with such a majority it would otherwise be impossible to lose the next one.