[Tubby Isaacs]

That's what lots of Greens do think, and to be fair to them, they're prepared to be up front about the sacrifices of making reducing consumption do very many hard yards. Zack's more into "green power and more trains", which is a more politically viable route to power. But you can't be nimby or reduce types of power you don't like because blah blah Three Mile Island.

[Boiler]

That's what lots of Greens do think, and to be fair to them, they're prepared to be up front about the sacrifices of making reducing consumption do very many hard yards. Zack's more into "green power and more trains", which is a more politically viable route to power. But you can't be nimby or reduce types of power you don't like because blah blah Three Mile Island.

I think the bêtes noires these days are Chernobyl and Fukushima. Well, as far as I know none of our nuclear stations are built on a fault line...

Reduction of energy consumption is a good idea and I wish more miles of railway could be electrified, but electric trains still use a lot of energy and as we've seen, post-construction insulation of buildings can be disastrous.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Our old house had some cavity wall insulation years ago, and the wall went all shitty. So I can see this may be more difficult than "just insulate everywhere ffs"

[Boiler]

When I took advantage of the Government insulation schemes, I had the roof done but when the absolute mouth-breathers who turned up to fill the wall cavities insisted that the late Mrs. Boiler's garden had to be torn up to allow them access I told them to fuck off.

In retrospect I'm glad I did that now, having read many a horror story.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Few people below the line in the usual place aren't happy with the Greens being criticized/ ridiculed by Labour for their Defence policy. Apparently leave NATO, tell everyone else they should leave NATO and form another alliance is "nuanced". Zack didn't just pull something out of his arse that would keep the influx of Corbynites on board.

[mattomac]

Seems most of their policy is “do something else” what that else is vague enough not to be able to be picked up on.

The “coalition of the willing” is sort of an alternative to NATO but works within NATO, a belief that an alternative wouldn’t be scuppered by a future government being elected that is hell bent on destroying it is a bit fanciful.

The world is in flux and I don’t think there is any specific trend some are breaking left and some are breaking right, some will end up as bulwarks others will end up as quasi dictatorships. Some will also switch from left to right and back again. Nothing is a given and I think it’s probably the end result of “choice” and politics rubbing alongside each other. Maybe NATO is outdated but it’s probably as relevant has its been since the Kosovo war in the 90s.

Probably should be put elsewhere and probably reflective of my reading currently on the Carnation revolution. Perhaps as the Cold War and the Nazis disappeared from living memory it was expected to happen.

[Watchman]

Or should NATO be doing more to reduce American influence, as at this moment the Trump administration is not favourable towards European alliances

[Youngian]

Apparently leave NATO, tell everyone else they should leave NATO and form another alliance is "nuanced". Zack didn't just pull something out of his arse that would keep the influx of Corbynites on board.

It is nuanced compared to Corbyn's Cold War era Benn position on NATO and the 'capitalist Common Market' being wicked belligerent Western imperialist alliances.
Zack is giving himself some slippery wriggle room if he ever became a serious contender for power. Arguing for stronger pan European defence structures. While Atlanticists are being irresponsible relying on an increasingly unstable US.
Be careful what you wish for, President Newsom giving Ukraine whatever it needs while President Le Pen pals with Orban and Putin, is a very plausible near future.