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Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:49 am
by Crabcakes
Oboogie wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 10:39 am How long before they start calling each other "Zionist, Neoliberal, genocide apologists?"
At the rate they’re going, probably about 10 minutes

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:07 am
by Boiler
It would seem that if you really want to upset folk BTL on the Guardian, just suggest that Corbyn never grew out of student politics.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:35 am
by Yug
Boiler wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:07 am It would seem that if you really want to upset folk BTL on the Guardian, just suggest that Corbyn never grew out of student politics.
Suggestion, or merely a statement of fact?

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:50 am
by Boiler
Yug wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:35 am
Boiler wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 11:07 am It would seem that if you really want to upset folk BTL on the Guardian, just suggest that Corbyn never grew out of student politics.
Suggestion, or merely a statement of fact?
If you can stomach it, go have a look-see... :D

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:00 pm
by Crabcakes
What's bizarre are the posts saying Labour are now doomed because this will split their vote. I don't think this is true though:

1. proper Jez headbangers already didn't vote for Labour because anything not exactly what they want is Tory. So they probably voted for some hardcore loon or not at all at the last GE - not in the equation
2. slightly less aggrieved voters probably went green or Lib dem. They might stay green/LD or go to the People's Front of Corbyn. But that's not a labour vote split - again, not in the equation
3. Anyone who is more about ensuring Farage/Tories don't win will tactically vote. They don't have to like Labour, but they recognise the real danger. Not in the equation because they're always voting against, not for.

So to assume this is a death knell for Starmer and Labour is to also assume there is a significant Labour voter cohort who simultaneously are engaged enough to always vote, but don't like Starmer's Labour, but also voted for them last time, but don't tactically vote, but do want to vote left wing so won't either go Tory or Reform or even LD as a protest, but don't care enough to stop the right winning seats. This is a lot of seriously muddled people, and I struggle to believe there are enough of these schzophrenically vague and fired up types.

That said, the new party might get votes - but the most likely voters for Project Jez are the same "nice to have but make fuck-all difference" bonus voters he added (and who his cronies love to wang on about) in already safe Labour seats, who likely stopped voting Labour out of spite the moment Corbyn stepped down so didn't form part of the cohort at the last GE. The sort of person who claims everyone not exactly of the same mindset of them on every topic is automatically a Tory, who'll unironically say "Don't blame me, I voted for Corbyn" in a swing seat where a LD or Green could have won in the 2019 GE, and who thinks making things absolutely as awful as possible for everyone is a great idea because then it is absolutely inevitable that the country will immediately rise up in revolution. Promise.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:19 pm
by Boiler
Good points well made Crabbs, but I'm still pretty sure that Labour's impressive victory had as much to do with the right-wing vote being split for once as much as people being absolutely sick of the shit-show that personified the last years of a dying, rudderless Tory government. The real test will come in 2029 or thereabouts, of course.

Meanwhile, just a few BTL responses from the Guardian:

Screenshot 2025-07-04 at 12-14-37 – UK politics live.png
Screenshot 2025-07-04 at 12-14-37 – UK politics live.png (117.58 KiB) Viewed 303 times

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:29 pm
by The Weeping Angel
Outside of Zarah has anyone joined this new outfit.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:37 pm
by kreuzberger
Crabcakes wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 9:27 am
... Sultana like being centre of attention.
I think that that's her raisin d'être ...

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:42 pm
by Oboogie
@The Weeping Angel
Not yet, even Corbyn has yet to confirm so Sultana's on her own at the moment. I expect people will wait to see if Sultana and Corbyn can reach agreement on what form the party should take.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 1:04 pm
by Andy McDandy
Funny thing about politics is that while we think of ourselves (largely) as reasonable, amenable to change, open to new ideas, not too tied to any dogma etc, we want something a bit more entrenched from our politicians. We want to know what they stand for, so outfits like the ChangeUK group tend to die a death.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 1:15 pm
by Boiler
kreuzberger wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:37 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 9:27 am
... Sultana like being centre of attention.
I think that that's her raisin d'être ...
Pity the reactions died a death...!

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 1:29 pm
by Oboogie
kreuzberger wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:37 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 9:27 am
... Sultana like being centre of attention.
I think that that's her raisin d'être ...
Well played, there's a shortage of humour in currant affairs.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 1:42 pm
by Killer Whale
Can we prune the puns, please?

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 1:49 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
We're plumming the depths.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 1:55 pm
by Oboogie
For those needing a break from the dried fruit puns...here's Phil Moorhouse's take on Ms Currant's new party.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 2:03 pm
by Crabcakes
kreuzberger wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:37 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 9:27 am
... Sultana like being centre of attention.
I think that that's her raisin d'être ...
The best bit of this is that it was entirely unintentional as I posted from my phone so was the victim/beneficiary of an autocorrect 😄

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 4:00 pm
by Oboogie
Do we have a name for this new party yet?
I've seen Jezbollah suggested but we don't know if he's going to be involved yet.

I think the New Anti Zionist Independents covers it well. I'll suggest it to Ms Dried-Grape and see what she thinks.

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 4:26 pm
by Crabcakes
I cannot take credit for this, but I have seen on t’Internet someone has suggested Fruit & Nuts 😄😄😄

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 4:26 pm
by Andy McDandy
Al-Jezzarah?

Re: Trot Watch

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 5:00 pm
by Crabcakes
Crabcakes wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 2:03 pm
kreuzberger wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 12:37 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Fri Jul 04, 2025 9:27 am
... Sultana like being centre of attention.
I think that that's her raisin d'être ...
The best bit of this is that it was entirely unintentional as I posted from my phone so was the victim/beneficiary of an autocorrect 😄
Hang on, I bamboozled myself here. I thought Sultana wasn’t her surname and I’d messed up at not catching an autocorrect, but it *is* her surname so I was OK anyway!

I blame Starmer or something.