Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 22, 2025 11:56 am The public is nowhere near ready to accept Freedom of Movement again. "Control" won the Referendum, and it's not something a government can easily give up.

The public was entirely relaxed about it in 2005. Even the S*n published an edition in Polish to welcome the new arrivals, and the mood remained positive for another half decade or more.

Then, the immigration poison was injected, and I reluctantly agree that it won't be drawn, any time soon, putting the tin-lid on the desperately needed demographic change that is desperately required.

Even words like "regulatory alignment" will not float; that sounds like EU-speak and hoity-toity attempts to hoodwink the Stella-swilling masses.

Nonetheless, that damage-limitation can be positioned as "cooperation", "agreement", and "partnership". And, unless the EU explicitly rages that it's the full bhuna or nothing (they won't), the UK has little option other than to follow that path.

Is it a customs union by osmosis? Of course, it is, but where else is growth and a route out of the current economic stasis going to come from?

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 22, 2025 11:56 am The public is nowhere near ready to accept Freedom of Movement again. "Control" won the Referendum, and it's not something a government can easily give up.

Apparently, it all comes down to phrasing. If you ask people if they want freedom of movement for Europeans vs do they want freedom of movement for themselves in Europe as well as for Europeans - and explain what this means - and you get very different outcomes.

It just underlines how crushingly simplistic the Brexit arguments were. It was framed as “stop this Albanian family of thugs moving in next door to your nan” when it was actually “shaft yourself in every way, from holiday customs queues to mobile phone roaming fees to importing and exporting goods, to appease a sentient ham with delusions of grandeur and a fag-ash covered racist”.

I argued repeatedly at the time, and still do, that citizens of EU member states exercising mutual treaty rights to live, work, and pay taxes in other EU member states wasn't even, technically speaking, "immigration" at all. Much of it was on a temporary basis, with people returning to their home state after perhaps a few years or so. It was, overwhelmingly, a net positive for UK people and the UK economy.

That Farage was able to mobilise hatred and xenophobia against the UK's EU membership to the extent that he successfully did points to both a failure of the Remain campaign to argue effectively on that basis, and a chronic failure of (mostly Tory) government to address regional pressures on infrastructure and services experienced by areas with high volumes of demand partly (but not wholly) caused by population spikes resulting from EU citizens coming to the UK under treaty rights to free movement.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 11:34 am That Farage was able to mobilise hatred and xenophobia against the UK's EU membership to the extent that he successfully did points to both a failure of the Remain campaign to argue effectively on that basis, and a chronic failure of (mostly Tory) government to address regional pressures on infrastructure and services experienced by areas with high volumes of demand partly (but not wholly) caused by population spikes resulting from EU citizens coming to the UK under treaty rights to free movement.

One town springs to mind.

Boston.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 11:34 am
That Farage was able to mobilise hatred and xenophobia against the UK's EU membership to the extent that he successfully did points to both a failure of the Remain campaign to argue effectively on that basis, and a chronic failure of (mostly Tory) government to address regional pressures on infrastructure and services experienced by areas with high volumes of demand partly (but not wholly) caused by population spikes resulting from EU citizens coming to the UK under treaty rights to free movement.

Almost as though leaving supply to 'market forces' wasn't quite the panacea the Thatcher Throbbers persuaded themselves it was...

Market forces are a bit like armed insurrectionists - freedom fighters when on your side, and quickly become vicious terrorists when not.

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 11:13 am
Apparently, it all comes down to phrasing. If you ask people if they want freedom of movement for Europeans vs do they want freedom of movement for themselves in Europe as well as for Europeans - and explain what this means - and you get very different outcomes.

Farage likes free movement for his son who works in finance in Frankfurt on his German passport. Plastic Paddy Tenerife resident Tommy Robinson is also a fan of free movement for himself. But doesn't believe British people should have it.

Youngian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 1:48 pm Farage likes free movement for his son who works in finance in Frankfurt on his German passport. Plastic Paddy Tenerife resident Tommy Robinson is also a fan of free movement for himself. But doesn't believe British people should have it.

I don't think that's true. I think they simply don't give a fuck.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 2:52 pm

Youngian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 1:48 pm Farage likes free movement for his son who works in finance in Frankfurt on his German passport. Plastic Paddy Tenerife resident Tommy Robinson is also a fan of free movement for himself. But doesn't believe British people should have it.

I don't think that's true. I think they simply don't give a fuck.

The fundamental truth of populism, the fundamental hypocrisy that somehow surpasses all others - both in terms of resilience, and in terms of moral failing.

Hypocrisy for populists can even be an advantage- "at least we're honest about it". Whereby £9m off a cypto man for Farage is less damaging that a Labour peer buying specs for Starmer.

The Guardian went along with the hysteria on the latter. Lord Ali had a Downing Street pass. Quite what issue of principle was at stake here, I've no idea. Would it be ok if he went the same number of times to Downing Street but was signed in as a guest each time?

Populist hypocrisy is fundamentally 'we don't care', at heart.

But they really, really, really fucking do. Whether edgy internet nihilist or 'I've had it up to here' stout yeoman, they're both refuge identities for the fragile.

Of course, as you observe, it works further 'up' the layers because that's the 'yaboo we'll do it as long as you let us get away with it, sucks to be you!' shtick. Under which is the aforementioned fragility.

Yeah the MAGA cult will evidently change its mind at a whim depending on what old Donald has to say and considering he is increasingly becoming a gibbering idiot its quite often.

Youngian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 1:48 pm

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Tue Jan 06, 2026 11:13 am
Apparently, it all comes down to phrasing. If you ask people if they want freedom of movement for Europeans vs do they want freedom of movement for themselves in Europe as well as for Europeans - and explain what this means - and you get very different outcomes.

Farage likes free movement for his son who works in finance in Frankfurt on his German passport. Plastic Paddy Tenerife resident Tommy Robinson is also a fan of free movement for himself. But doesn't believe British people should have it.

I don't think either of them care about much, except their income.