Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 07, 2026 11:12 am Discussion of this on Facebook identified the core of pub-goers as middle aged men trying to get away from their families. That wasn't from a piss-taking conversation, but one that was, as far as I can tell, genuinely interested in why pubs are going under.

Running costs and wages are part of it, but bigger factors were prices and convenience. Why go to a pub for 'the big game' when you can watch it at home, set up a discord channel with your mates to discuss it, have the soundtrack of your choice, smoke if you want to, and not pay £6.00 a pint?

A former colleague of mine used to frequent a pub in the Yorkshire village he lives in. It recently changed hands and for whatever reason, he popped in for a pint. When the couple on the table adjacent used their table to change their child's nappy - with nary a word said by the publican - that's when he decided to leave.

With surroundings like that and how you can go to the local deli - or even the Co-op - and get 500ml bottles of locally-brewed beers (e.g. Grainstore, Oakham Ales) for less than half the cost of a pint in a pub such as described above, why wouldn't you?

I far prefer micro-pubs anyway.

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 07, 2026 11:12 am Discussion of this on Facebook identified the core of pub-goers as middle aged men trying to get away from their families. That wasn't from a piss-taking conversation, but one that was, as far as I can tell, genuinely interested in why pubs are going under.

Exactly, pubs were a very masculine thing traditionally. Even in London, it took till the "yuppie" era for (some) pubs to take women semi-seriously, with the likes of All Bar One making an effort with wine.

You can't really pull the old "just have a few on the way home, after the day I've had!" when your wife has been out at work too, and probably had no better a day than you.

Reading the CAMRA pages on Facebook is like the Mail with a bit less racism. There are many reasons why pubs are declining but according to the self-proclaimed saviours of the industry they were all thriving before July of last year.

Exactly, pubs were a very masculine thing traditionally. Even in London, it took till the "yuppie" era for (some) pubs to take women semi-seriously, with the likes of All Bar One making an effort with wine.

You can't really pull the old "just have a few on the way home, after the day I've had!" when your wife has been out at work too, and probably had no better a day than you.

Coffee shops are the high street outliers doing well but too many people still have Chinese walls in their heads. A local near me serves excellent coffee and cakes in the daytime to diversify and its unquestionably a more comfy establishment then the near by Costa and Greggs which are full. This pub is nearly always empty by contrast.

davidjay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 08, 2026 12:11 am Reading the CAMRA pages on Facebook is like the Mail with a bit less racism. There are many reasons why pubs are declining but according to the self-proclaimed saviours of the industry they were all thriving before July of last year.

I once read a CAMRA opinion piece, someone getting the hump over plastic glasses in town centers. The world consisted of people like them appreciating their pints and others getting shitfaced on crap beer and glassing people. Pubs where people like them went were to be exempted from what most people would think was a sensible policy.

Mandelson accuses European leaders of ‘histrionic’ reaction to Trump’s Greenland stance
Article by former British ambassador to US is likely to be seen as criticism of Keir Starmer

Just fuck off. The only thing this can do is hurt Starmer for giving you that job, which he rightly sacked you from. Nobody in Europe or anywhere else is lapping up your "wisdom".

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 05, 2026 7:03 pm Something else the government is getting heat for on Bluesky is staying on X, especially in light of what GROK has been doing. Do people here think they should leave X?

Are Zak Polinsky, Zarah Sultana, Owen Jones also "getting heat" for their regular use of Twitter or is it only Labour who should be removed?

davidjay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 08, 2026 12:11 am Reading the CAMRA pages on Facebook is like the Mail with a bit less racism. There are many reasons why pubs are declining but according to the self-proclaimed saviours of the industry they were all thriving before July of last year.

To be fair most of this lot left CAMRA long ago when it decided to go "woke"..... I think it was a pride flag.

mattomac wrote: ↑Thu Jan 08, 2026 5:03 pm

davidjay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 08, 2026 12:11 am Reading the CAMRA pages on Facebook is like the Mail with a bit less racism. There are many reasons why pubs are declining but according to the self-proclaimed saviours of the industry they were all thriving before July of last year.

To be fair most of this lot left CAMRA long ago when it decided to go "woke"..... I think it was a pride flag.

What's left certainly isn't woke.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e57dexly1o

A climbdown on forthcoming increases to the business rates bills faced by pubs in England is set to be announced by the government in the next few days.

The government is expected to say it will make changes to how pubs' business rates are calculated, resulting in smaller rises to bills.

Treasury officials say they have recognised the financial difficulties facing many pubs after sharp rises in the rateable value of their premises.

The move follows pressure from landlords and industry groups that included more than 1,000 pubs banning Labour MPs from their premises.

The BBC understands it will apply only to pubs and not the whole hospitality sector.

The Treasury is also thought to be ready to relax licensing rules to allow longer opening and more pavement areas for drinking.

In her November Budget, Chancellor Rachel Reeves scaled back business rate discounts that have been in force since the pandemic from 75% to 40% - and announced that there would be no discount at all from April.

That, combined with big upward adjustments to rateable values of pub premises, left landlords with the prospect of much higher rates bills.

A campaign to dilute the impact of these rises has been gaining traction in recent weeks, with pub owners and industry groups lobbying for more support.

Conversations between the government and the hospitality sector were "ongoing", DWP minister Dame Diana Johnson said.

Speaking to Radio 4's PM programme, she said: "We as a government want to make business rates fairer but you'll also know we're coming to the end of the transitional relief that was available because of Covid."

On Wednesday Labour MPs called on the government to rethink its support for the industry.

The BBC understands it will apply only to pubs and not the whole hospitality sector.

You can justify this discrimination on the basis that pubs serve a social function and have cultural significance. But are costs the real reason why some pubs are dying while others continue to thrive?

Youngian wrote: ↑Thu Jan 08, 2026 7:54 am
Coffee shops are the high street outliers doing well but too many people still have Chinese walls in their heads. A local near me serves excellent coffee and cakes in the daytime to diversify and its unquestionably a more comfy establishment then the near by Costa and Greggs which are full. This pub is nearly always empty by contrast.

I sometimes forget how recent coffee shops are.

When I used to take more train journeys in the mid 90s, I sometimes liked to break the journey, as you were allowed, and have a walk round a town en route until the next train came. I did it in Swindon once, not realizing there was a rare 2 hour break without another train for me to catch. That was frankly a bit long to do what I usually did- go into independent record shops and look at the sleeves of records I mostly already owned. I'm sure I was in plenty of time for the next train

Anyway, I don't think it occurred to me to go into a coffee shop. Now it would probably be the first thing I did.

Was it around about mid 90s when wine sales jumped from a bottle of Blue Nun at Christmas to guzzling it by the gallons from the supermarket?
Don't recall any strong cultural influences or mass marketing that turned the UK into a wine drinking nation.
Heard it suggested Friends boosted the coffee shop but its viewing figures were a small niche.

The BBC understands it will apply only to pubs and not the whole hospitality sector.

Good luck defining a pub. When does a pub that sells food become a restaurant that sells drinks? When does a pub that puts on music become a live music venue?

How many curries does Timmy Wetherspoons shift? Just for the LOLz they should class it as a restaurant when calculating rates.

Youngian wrote: ↑Thu Jan 08, 2026 10:09 pm Was it around about mid 90s when wine sales jumped from a bottle of Blue Nun at Christmas to guzzling it by the gallons from the supermarket?
Don't recall any strong cultural influences or mass marketing that turned the UK into a wine drinking nation.
Heard it suggested Friends boosted the coffee shop but its viewing figures were a small niche.

Channel Tunnel and Maastricht.

Keith Floyd and Oz Clarke?

Withnail?

I remember Mrs Whale and I following the Superplonk column in The Guardian during the late 'eighties and picking up some very acceptable east European reds for around £1.99, sometimes even less, a bottle from Sahff Lunnun supermarkets. This was the time before 'brands' started adding a quid a bottle for a fancy name and label.