[Tubby Isaacs]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/powe ... y-shake-up

Powering Britain's future: Electricity bills to be slashed for over 7,000 businesses in major industry shake-up

Certainly a case for this. But all I can see is they're removing some costs that pay for renewables. How are they paying for this? Borrowing? Not cheap.

[The Weeping Angel]

David Henig is unimpressed with the industrial strategy.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Who is David Henig?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Henig's a trade guy rather than an industrial strategy guy, isn't he? Giles Wilkes is who I look to industrial strategy. He's spotted some tensions, but not particularly hostile so far.



I recall when Philip Hammond was talking industrial strategy, it was pointed out that, yeah, he'd picked out some sectors with high growth potential, but they seemed to be concentrated in places like Cambridge.

[Abernathy]

I’m a little surprised that Yvette Cooper intends to proscribe the group called “Palestine Action” as a terrorist organisation after they breached security at the RAF base in Brize Norton and chucked red paint in the engines of a transporter plane.

I’m only slightly more surprised to find myself in (some) agreement with the erstwhile Corbyn acolyte Shami Chakrabarti, who thinks that proscription of the organisation as terrorist is something of an overkill. Palestine Action’s activities without question do entail criminality by the individuals carrying them out, and those individuals can be and should be prosecuted for that criminality, but terrorists ? Really ?

On the other hand …

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g83l33wdeo

[Yug]

From Aber's link above

In a statement, Palestine Action said: "The real crime here is not red paint being sprayed on these war planes, but the war crimes that have been enabled with those planes because of the UK Governme

These people are unhinged. I think banning the group is the right thing to do because, well, who knows what they might do next? They are definitely crossing the line between legitimate protest and acts of terrorism.

I broadly agree with their aims, but not with their statements or actions.

[kreuzberger]

They are diametrically opposed to Palestine Inaction, so it is little wonder that HMG has taken this equally indefensible route.

It is as ludicrous as it is portentous.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Terrorism Act (2000)- ie before Al-Qaeda, ISIS etc- mentions serious damage to property as terrorism. I think sabotaging a military aircraft (which I'm told would be used, if at all, in Eastern Europe in a conflict with Russia) looks like a reasonable thing to include within that. Just daubing paint on the aircraft wouldn't have counted.

[The Weeping Angel]

Honestly you break into an RAF and try to sabotage the planes and suddenly the government thinks you might be a threat. What is Britain coming to?

[kreuzberger]

The allegations and the reports of damage are yet to be tested in anything other than press releases. Hands-up who wants draconian legislation on that basis?

[Tubby Isaacs]

We can query the price tag, but I don't think anybody from Palestine Action has denied that paint was sprayed into the engines, which would by all accounts be reasonably serious damage.

[kreuzberger]

Pre-trial confessions are all we need now in order to justify double-digit sentences? The 70s want their Panorama series back.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Here are Palestine Action, 2 weeks ago. They weren't proscribed for this, quite rightly, I think, even though it was pretty eye catching vandalism. A military plane is a step up.

https://news.sky.com/story/pro-palestin ... s-13150773

[The Weeping Angel]

Did they they break into an airbase yes or no?

[Abernathy]

I think that other than the latest red paint in the jet engine incursion, Palestine Action does have a record of subversive vandalism against government facilities and assets. The security breach at an RAF base is a very serious matter on its own. So despite my (reluctant) sympathies with La Chakri, I dare say that my views may be moving more towards those of La Belle Yvette.

[kreuzberger]

I don't doubt that these allegations relate to serious act of a criminal nature. But terrorism?

Clearly, the current law is wooly in its framing, insofar as it catch-all covers 9/11-style attacks, but I am not at all convinced that anyone is in mortal fear of red aircraft engines or that they bear any similarities with toppling landmark real estate.

At a push, this could be seen as sabotage. However, there is currently no criminal offence of sabotage in UK law even though there are potential charges that could cover similar activities such as in the Criminal Damage Act which can land you with a ten year stretch.

HMG wants to extend that and also fill prisons with cheer-leading bystanders? La Bête Yvette (to borrow a phrase) is, at best, barking up the wrong Dangerous Dogs Act.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I wonder if the intention actually was to sabotage the engines. Maybe they just thought spray some red paint, which is what they did with Barclays Bank. Might be interesting to see them try and argue this if they got caught. Given they attacked the wrong plane, from their point of view, they might have just fucked up.

The Act is what it is. The Government have discretion, but I think sabotaging (if they have) something important for Defence would seem to come under it.

Here's The Guardian with "if red paint is terrorism, what isn't?"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -what-isnt

This is about as convincing as "if praying is criminal, what isn't?" used by JD Vance and co when talking about arseholes outside abortion clinics.

At least refer to the actual law, and make an argument for discretion.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

You don't break a butterfly on the wheel.