[Tubby Isaacs]

McSweeney going would be nice, but this probably wasn't his fault. They didn't want to put taxes up again, and there are few budgets you could credibly save enough money from.

[The Weeping Angel]

Having different arrangement for new claimants isn't unknown in the benefits system, but it's a bit different when the amounts are so large like with PIP. Concessions are £3bn so far, will probably be more. One thing they could do is drop the plan to uprate jobseekers by 1% more than inflation. It's a good idea, but one reason it's not been done before is that there isn't much money about. That would free a bit more up for other concessions without raising the overall cost.

A striking point made by the Minister, Stephen Timms, was that working age social security is about where it was in 2008 in real terms. That all sounds fine, but the health benefits are hugely up. It's only at the same level because child tax credits, unemployment benefit and other things have been really cut. And this is now, let alone with all the projected increases in claimants. I accept that the Government is probably dead if the projections actually happen. But what you don't do is what the government just tried to do. You take your time with limited changes, which is what they did in government before.

I think a Putin Tax (even breaking the pre-election promises) to pay for the extra Defence spending may be viable though.

I see the SNP have already gone with two-tier Kier.

[kreuzberger]

Going up against three "Fenian bastards" was never going to go well. Latest news; as expected and as funny as fuck.

Nearly 50 years on, and the establishment still has no idea how to deal with punk.

[The Weeping Angel]

Ah, the playful scamps and their love of violence.

[Youngian]

Nearly 50 years on, and the establishment still has no idea how to deal with punk.

I haven't heard a government minister or PM moan about a pop band sticking it to the man for at least 40 years. Apart from Cameron complaining about Lily Allen being a bit saucy. You're on a hiding to nothing even if like Kneecap you've been a bunch pricks to murdered MPs' relatives. Which they made a groveling apology for as they crave being famous over being canceled like almost everyone else who fronts a stage.

[kreuzberger]

Ah, the playful scamps and their love of violence.

Those poetic peaceniks and their love of violence? I think that you might have the wrong end of the stick, as per usual.

[The Weeping Angel]

Really?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Like I said, Butterflies/wheel.

[davidjay]

If everyone ignored them they'd go away.

[Tubby Isaacs]

If everyone ignored them they'd go away.

Once David Amess's family refused to turn the other cheek, and Kneecap got charged under the Terrorism Act, the option of ignoring wasn't really there. I think "inappropriate" is reasonably light touch.

I love the Sex Pistols, and see the offensive stuff as art school pranks, and often very funny, but it couldn't really be left alone today. Swastikas alone would have got them into enormously deep shit, even though they weren't at all sympathetic to Nazis.

My formative years with pop/rock were the late 80s, and I think things had changed by then compared with the 70s. A massive controversy of the time was Steve Albini's band Rapeman. Though the music still got reviewed, gigs still happened, nobody was really interested in Albini's defence (it was based on a Japanese comic series, which Albini found repellent and exciting, per wiki). The album had some good reviews, but just change the fucking name, Steve, He later recanted.

[Oboogie]

If everyone ignored them they'd go away.

Once David Amess's family refused to turn the other cheek, and Kneecap got charged under the Terrorism Act, the option of ignoring wasn't really there. I think "inappropriate" is reasonably light touch.

I love the Sex Pistols, and see the offensive stuff as art school pranks, and often very funny, but it couldn't really be left alone today. Swastikas alone would have got them into enormously deep shit, even though they weren't at all sympathetic to Nazis.

My formative years with pop/rock were the late 80s, and I think things had changed by then compared with the 70s. A massive controversy of the time was Steve Albini's band Rapeman. Though the music still got reviewed, gigs still happened, nobody was really interested in Albini's defence (it was based on a Japanese comic series, which Albini found repellent and exciting, per wiki). The album had some good reviews, but just change the fucking name, Steve, He later recanted.

Brendan Cox also failed to see the funny side of his wife's murder, the humourless widowed bastard. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8dg2z399gyo

Context is everything.
The Sex Pistols were in a different age, when the notion that a pop group might incite a fan to murder an MP would have seemed absurdly hyperbolic because people didn't murder MPs in 1977. They do now. Relatively easily.

The Sex Pistols got away with wearing swastikas and singing Belsen Was A Gas in the name of art, humour and selling records. But that was nearly 50 years ago. Attitudes have changed, Racism, Fascism, genocide and ethnic cleansing are no longer given a free pass in the name of marketing or having fun - ask Lucy Connolly.

Still, I expect Kneecap's downloads have increased enormously on the back of all the free publicity, so a good result for them as they count their winnings.
Rock and Roll, Phew!

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yep, and there was quite a lot more tolerance for violent talk generally. Loads of people used to say stuff like "I wish the IRA had got Thatcher", not in any sort of artistic context. I suppose there was greater tolerance of actual violence too. Prison sentences for really horrible stuff were often pretty pathetic, unless you did it in the context of robbing a bank.

[Andy McDandy]

Airey Neave was assassinated by the INLA in 1977. Car bomb as he was leaving the Houses of Parliament. There was also Ian Gow in 1990.

As for the Sex Pistols and swastikas, it was partly done for shock value and a situationist "Yeah, deal with this random thing" way. Also detracted from the actual socially aware messaging done by the more serious punk bands.

[Oboogie]

Airey Neave was assassinated by the INLA in 1977. Car bomb as he was leaving the Houses of Parliament. There was also Ian Gow in 1990.

Yes, Airey Neave was assassinated (I'd forgotten Ian Gow). Of course the big one was the bombing of the Tories in the Grand Hotel. But those killings were carried out by organised and well funded terrorist groups and were not within the power of an individual acting alone. There's a big logistical difference between carrying out a bombing and simply picking up a kitchen knife and popping along to your MPs surgery. We've been shown how very easy it is, it doesn't take an organisation or specialist knowledge or equipment. It just requires the wrong suggestion in the wrong ear.

[Oboogie]

I note that Channel 4 (and the Tories) are doing their best to direct the outrage at the BBC.

[The Weeping Angel]

It's in relation to this.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... gn=uk_main

Truss was ousted from No.10 after just 49 days following a revolt by Conservative MPs in the wake of her disastrous mini-Budget.

But Seldon said that Starmer, who marks a year in office on July 5, has been worse.

He told Sky News: “I think it is absolutely right that not in a hundred years has anyone made such an inept start coming in to the office of prime minister with so little idea of what he’s doing, why he’s doing, what story he’s telling, what he’s communicating and the people he needs around him, both inside Downing Street and in the other key positions.”

But presenter Phillips told him: “When you say ‘not in a hundred years’, I can hear people shouting at the telly ‘Liz Truss’.”

[davidjay]

Yep, and there was quite a lot more tolerance for violent talk generally. Loads of people used to say stuff like "I wish the IRA had got Thatcher", not in any sort of artistic context. I suppose there was greater tolerance of actual violence too. Prison sentences for really horrible stuff were often pretty pathetic, unless you did it in the context of robbing a bank.

It was always reckoned that you'd get a bigger sentence for breaking a window than someone's nose. You certainly "can't say anything these days" yet that only refers to laughing at pakis and queers, not supporting rogue organisations.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Anthony Seldon's qualification to talk like he's Robert Caro has always escaped me.

It's like he's following events through headlines.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Airey Neave was assassinated by the INLA in 1977. Car bomb as he was leaving the Houses of Parliament. There was also Ian Gow in 1990.

As for the Sex Pistols and swastikas, it was partly done for shock value and a situationist "Yeah, deal with this random thing" way. Also detracted from the actual socially aware messaging done by the more serious punk bands.

I'd forgotten about Ian Gow. Also Anthony Berry, killed in the Brighton Bomb.

There was also a "won't the older generation shut about the bloody war" aspect to the Pistols' Nazi provocations, I think.

[Abernathy]

I confess to saying “I wish the IRA had got Thatcher”. I still do. Her legacy has been sheer poison.