[The Weeping Angel]

That's mainly amongst young men. Allowing 16-17-year-olds the right to vote is the right thing to do. Yes, there's a risk it might backfire but you could say that about almost any policy.

[Tubby Isaacs]

What's their end goal exactly?

The Guardian? Business and vibes. The people in this feedback think they're doing and saying the right thing. It's not as cynical as the right equivalent, but the effect in a limited and not particularly expert view getting pushed forward into the mainstream is similar.

You see the effect BTL, eg on Monbiot's article about water today. Few people understand that bills are going up because of investment that they want. For all their faults, water companies have actually been pushing to do more investment but restricted by the regulator (with government connivance) because they prioritized lower bills. Which raises the question, if the privatized system has taken the same short term decisions that the government would have done, what exactly has been the point of it? But that doesn't stop the policy choice being much harder than people make out. I suspect, that like everything else, the investment is to be paid for by "taxing the rich".

And lots are convinced water companies can be nationalized for nothing or virtually nothing. When you follow the links the source seems to be some campaigners citing the fall of Northern Rock. I can see how that might apply to Thames, but the others seem to be solvent. If you fail to present contrary views on the cost, then there's a nasty loop that the Government must be doing it because of corruption or idiocy. This is all a nice free hit because even now the chance of a Green Government coming in and doing what they want is remote.

[Boiler]

That's mainly amongst young men. Allowing 16-17-year-olds the right to vote is the right thing to do. Yes, there's a risk it might backfire but you could say that about almost any policy.

Who still make up ~50% of the electorate, let's not forget. So far, I remain unconvinced that it's a good idea.

Don't worry, there's someone BTL on the Grauniad saying at every opportunity - and in all seriousness - that it should be lowered to 12.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Nils Pratley on Reeves' speech is interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/ni ... ing-reform

He likes some of it, and this is his comment on the most eyecatching bit of the speech.

Reeves on Tuesday, however, merely announced a review to look at how reforms to ringfencing could “strike the right balance between growth and stability, including protecting consumer deposits”. One hopes that does not mean outright abolition, which is what banks such as HSBC, Lloyds and NatWest have been urging on the grounds that the rules trap capital and impede growth.

This is by no means completely favorable, but the tone of the specialist is completely different to the "commentators" It does my head in that so many people who rightly get fed up with Laura Kuenssberg commentary taking precedence over subject correspondents on the BBC are happy to lap the same approach up from the Guardian.

[Killer Whale]

If votes at 16 is not OK (on balance it think it's fine) then you seriously have to think about the (hundreds of?) thousands of elderly people with actual dementia diagnoses that are still able to vote.

[Abernathy]

If votes at 16 is not OK (on balance it think it's fine) then you seriously have to think about the (hundreds of?) thousands of elderly people with actual dementia diagnoses that are still able to vote.

Well, yes, but I'd suggest that the vast majority of people in that category don't actually vote - even though they have a nominal entitlement so to do.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Here's the article I was talking about earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rs-england

On the face of it, nationalizing without full compensation sounds like a big thing, worthy of some legal analysis. We don't get any lawyers commenting but we do get Cat Hobbs of WeOwnIt, who is a regular on this stuff. You'll be amazed to hear her interpretation is favorable to the position she held anyway.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

The tankies have really got the knives out.

It’s wider than Tankies. The Guardian knows what it’s doing tapping into these various vibes. Yesterday 19 trees being cut down in a cemetery by a motorway was treated like a major story.

There’s a feed back loop of “local campaigners”, think tanks, academicsand journalists who all reinforce each other. The think tanks are open about their funding, unlike on the right, and the academics are cuddlier but the dynamic is in some ways similar. The upshot is nobody is interested in details. The narrative is all.

What's their end goal exactly?

Fuck Tony Blair...

[Boiler]

If votes at 16 is not OK (on balance it think it's fine) then you seriously have to think about the (hundreds of?) thousands of elderly people with actual dementia diagnoses that are still able to vote.

Well, yes, but I'd suggest that the vast majority of people in that category don't actually vote - even though they have a nominal entitlement so to do.

Pretty sure my m-i-l didn't vote at the last GE and she fits KW's description exactly.

[The Weeping Angel]

That's mainly amongst young men. Allowing 16-17-year-olds the right to vote is the right thing to do. Yes, there's a risk it might backfire but you could say that about almost any policy.

Who still make up ~50% of the electorate, let's not forget. So far, I remain unconvinced that it's a good idea.

Don't worry, there's someone BTL on the Grauniad saying at every opportunity - and in all seriousness - that it should be lowered to 12.

Worth pointing out that youth support for Reform is somewhat overblown.

[Boiler]

Ta for that, TWA.

[Youngian]

Will enough 16-18 year olds vote to tip the balance anywhere?
Why do we vote on Thursday which favour's those who don't work?
A bank holiday Friday and the polls open until Sunday afternoon would be good.

[Killer Whale]

Well, yes, but I'd suggest that the vast majority of people in that category don't actually vote - even though they have a nominal entitlement so to do.

Pretty sure my m-i-l didn't vote at the last GE and she fits KW's description exactly.

You don't have to be completely ga-ga to have a diagnosis. My mother is no more bats most of the time than she ever was, but she's still able to ask me on a semi-regular basis "Who was that man in the house at breakfast time? He had some of our toast." She's talking about my dad.

She's not allowed to drive any more (thank heavens), but she can and will still vote.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Visiting Professor is continuing to embarrass Kings College London. Perhaps things have different ages because they're different? Being legally able to conceive children would seem like quite a biggy. Does John want the age of consent raised to 18?

[Boiler]

Well, yes, but I'd suggest that the vast majority of people in that category don't actually vote - even though they have a nominal entitlement so to do.

Pretty sure my m-i-l didn't vote at the last GE and she fits KW's description exactly.

You don't have to be completely ga-ga to have a diagnosis. My mother is no more bats most of the time than she ever was, but she's still able to ask me on a semi-regular basis "Who was that man in the house at breakfast time? He had some of our toast." She's talking about my dad.

She's not allowed to drive any more (thank heavens), but she can and will still vote.

Pretty much m-i-l's condition - you can still have a conversation with her but she is prone to repeating herself a lot and occasionally, still has imaginary children. But the worst part is that she is aware she's getting worse.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I mean, yeah, get rid of it. But how much effect did it actually have? Peabody say 291,000 used Help to Buy in 10 years. Compared with the hoped for boost to supply, that isn't really that many. And did they even all happen in the places with the highest prices? If you help someone buy an unremarkable house in South Wales for £150k, how much is that inflating the price by? Of course, if you subsidize a load of people all chasing homes in Central London, it's a different matter.

[Tubby Isaacs]

A skeptical view here.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

>ahem<
'sceptical'.

[Boiler]

Heads will explode.

Starmer and Merz holding news conference after signing UK-Germany treaty

[Crabcakes]

The Telegraph seem to hate the votes at 16 policy, so clearly it must be a good thing.