By mattomac
#97772
This is why I find the situation rather interesting if not at the same time depressing. I did expect the traditional Tory press to find its way home at some point.

First bit of Reform faltering or maybe when Jenerick becomes leader.
By Bones McCoy
#97778
davidjay wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 11:17 pm
mattomac wrote: Sun Oct 12, 2025 10:02 pm There biggest issue is that there are seats they can still not effectively win. My major worry is Reform exist to take them. As they still won’t vote for a Tory in them (see Wales).

What intrigues me is if the Tories had less seats than them but was enough to form a majority would the great grand party of British politics play themselves as a junior party, knowing that Reform ideas are effectively dumb and remembering how it did for the Lib Dem’s.
I can't imagine the Tories ever accepting a junior role. Whenever they're in opposition they adopt a King Over the Water position, waiting for the country to come to its senses and welcome them back - natural party of government and all that . Serving under Reform would destroy their beliefs forever.
And I can't imagine Reform entering a merger as junior partner.
Let me qualify that a bit.

I don't imagine Farage would have any problem dumping his flagshaggers and taking his leadership group of five or six into a Tory alliance.
But that risks his big polling numbers - maybe he takes a "who else are they going to vote for?" approach.

Any alliance or merger is going to require a lot of subtle diplomacy.
Not a quality I associate with Badenoch, Jenrick, Farage or Tice.
Maybe the tories have a few "long game operators" stuck in their sock drawer (What's Gove doing now?)

I believe there's political mileage in a merger / alliance, but think there are a lot of egos and roadblocks to it occurring.
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By Andy McDandy
#97783
I said earlier that the big stumbling block for Reform will be finding enough candidates who can pass a background check, and can be relied on to not fuck up for an entire election campaign. Yes, there's a strong element of "We're voting for Nige!" when anyone puts their cross next to them, but if it comes to light that a candidate has a particularly odious rap sheet, or more skeletons in their closet than John Christie, that will put them on the defensive for a day or two, and may repel enough voters in that constituency.

Worst case scenario is a hung parliament with enough Tories/Unionists/Reform to make a majority. Fargle will take an opportunity to form a coalition of necessity*, half the Tories will be happy to swap blue for aquamarine, and any vaguely middling Tories would have been sidelined or ousted under Badenoch/Jenrick anyway.

Which brings me to local conservative parties and selection processes. I'm really hoping that the post-Brexit years, and Johnson's purge of 2019 haven't taken all the more moderate ones out of the system. Because whataboutery will only serve Reform. What we need is 4-6 weeks of Fargle defending domestic abusers and tax dodgers, and claiming his vetting system is both state of the art and just up and running. We need him petulant, whiny, and defensive. Then we need him gone.

*Done in a noble spirit of compromise, done to maintain a functioning government. As opposed to our side, who do grubby backroom deals to cling onto their ministerial perks by their fingertips.
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By Abernathy
#97786
We also need to keep reminding people that Farage helped the Tories to win the general election of 2019 by withdrawing all his UKIP candidates from Tory-held seats.

And of course, that he is culpable through his support for Brexit of rendering the UK’s economy £140billion smaller than it would be if we had remained a member of the EU.
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By Tubby Isaacs
#97793
Candidates in the US generally mattered more than here, with split ticket voting in lots of states. Voters could get to know their candidates over primaries and localized campaigns. Sadly once Newt Gingrich got the hang of attacking every Blue Dog Democrat as though they were Trotsky, it became much less of a thing. Sherrod Brown and Jon Tester getting beaten badly was the last gasp of this other world.

The UK election is going to be be completely nationalized, every candidate will be the Farage candidate. A good election for Reform will be if no candidates get noticed. And even if they do, there are media outlets who'll pour a bunch of shit on the sane challengers in response.
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By Tubby Isaacs
#97794
As an aside, this election is worth checking out if you haven't heard of it before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Unit ... in_Georgia

Short version- Republican candidate who skipped Vietnam with a student deferment and a football injury attacked the incumbent Democrat as soft on security. Said incumbent Democrat had not only served in Vietnam, but lost both legs and one arm there.

The Republican romped home by 7 points.
User avatar
By Watchman
#97816
Abernathy wrote: Mon Oct 13, 2025 1:46 pm We also need to keep reminding people that Farage helped the Tories to win the general election of 2019 by withdrawing all his UKIP candidates from Tory-held seats.

And of course, that he is culpable through his support for Brexit of rendering the UK’s economy £140billion smaller than it would be if we had remained a member of the EU.
Re Brexit, Nigel will simply say - without a plan or strategy - that we had the "wrong" sort of Brexit, and when he's PM he will get a "proper" one
User avatar
By Boiler
#97817
Yep, he'll just wave it away and no-one in the client media will question it.

He is (if not already) an unstoppable force with no immovable object ahead to stop him.
User avatar
By Abernathy
#97826
Given the scale of the damage it has done to the United Kingdom’s reputation, the hurdles it has placed on businesses, tourists and consumers, it can seem a little eccentric to note that Brexit has also been an utterly rotten deal for the Conservative party.

It brought the premiership of David Cameron to an abrupt end and took the frontline career of George Osborne, the Tories’ most brilliant strategist, down with it. The reconfiguration of British politics and voting it helped to accelerate means that the party has lost, probably for ever, the electoral coalition that helped it to win in 2015 — smaller, yes, in terms of votes gained than those of 2017 or 2019, but one largely comprised of voters with a direct self-interest in economic dynamism and an appetite for tax cuts.

And far from sending Nigel Farage into retirement once and for all, as its advocates once claimed would be the case, Brexit has put him in a position from where he could become Britain’s next prime minister — potentially relegating the Conservatives to minor party status in the process. 

More damagingly still, Brexit destroyed the party’s relationship with the chunk of the electorate that the Conservatives will always need if they are not only to win elections but to govern effectively: successful people in the middle of their careers.

Not everyone whose journey on the Eurostar used to end with a near-frictionless arrival at St Pancras feels an emotional connection to the European project. Nor does every small business owner who no longer trades with the continent experience a pang of regret when they are reminded that the UK is no longer in the single market. But they do all experience a sense of irritation at barriers to their pleasures or their profits having been erected against their will. 

One reason the successive Tory administrations from 2016 to 2024 achieved so little beyond damage control is that they traded middle-aged voters who needed little from the state for older voters who require rather more. The struggling Conservative party is now essentially one that only appeals to wealthy retirees. The animating energy, purpose and drive for a viable centre-right has to come from people who wish to become wealthy retirees, not people who already are — in other words, people who, for the most part, think that Brexit was a bad idea. 

An essential condition today for entry into the upper echelons of Conservative party politics is being willing to at least pretend that you think taking Britain out of the EU was a good idea. This is a never-ending lobotomy for the Tories. It’s not that there aren’t any brilliant, economically successful and working-age people who still support Brexit — there are. There just aren’t as many of them as there are people who hold what, until relatively recently, we’d have called “Conservative” views on economics and public policy but who think Brexit was a bad idea and aren’t willing to pretend otherwise.

If you remove the already large group of people who would make excellent Tory MPs but are doing perfectly well for themselves in jobs they enjoy, and then require the remainder to believe Brexit has turned out to be a good decision, or pretend they do, your talent pool becomes very shallow indeed. The Conservatives’ current approach is a bit like saying you can only fully participate in the political life of the party as long as you don’t own a television — sure, you will get some good people, but not very many.

We underrate how corrosive it is to the Tories’ future that they’ve become a party where it is an open secret that a large number of MPs first elected in 2019 or later who now claim to be long-standing opponents of EU membership, were in fact horrified by Brexit. No party can have honest and serious conversations about policy trade-offs if acknowledging the truth as you see it becomes not just an optional extra, but an active barrier to advancement for the kind of successful people who used to be the bedrock of the Conservatives in both parliament and in the country. 

The party’s fortunes would not be immediately transformed were their leader, Kemi Badenoch, to say that she has realised that it is incoherent to kick off one speech by praising the importance of free trade and then, a few days later, celebrate wrenching the UK out of its nearest free trading zone. But what is undeniable is that if the Tory party wants to be once more in the 21st century the party it was in the 20th — a natural home for successful people — it must again become a place in which pro-Europeans are not only welcome but can hold high office. Without that, it will be for ever defined by past glories, and not future triumphs.

stephen.bush@ft.com
Youngian liked this
By Youngian
#97827
Like to remind local Tory councillors who have a moan about the Lib Dem run county council that the Conservatives would still be running shire councils if their only policy since 2015 wasn't 'what would Nigel say?'
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